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Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:02 pm
by Superbone
http://www.nba.com/article/2019/03/04/a ... 03-04-2019
About Last Night: Rising Suns
Phoenix pulls off monstrous upset with win against league-leading Bucks
Pulling off one of the league's most improbable upsets in decades, the Suns somehow prevailed 114-105, erasing a 16-point deficit in the first half and finishing strong with a combination of effort and execution they've lacked so often during yet another lost season.
In doing so, the Suns -- who trailed Milwaukee by 36 games in the loss column entering Monday's action, and 35 1/2 games overall -- became the first team to beat the Bucks more than once this season, while the Bucks suffered back-to-back defeats for the first time.
Even more notably, it marked the first time since 1983-84, when the Indiana Pacers upset the eventual-champion Boston Celtics, that the NBA's worst team has beaten the NBA's best team more than 60 games into the season. (For reference, only one current Sun, 38-year-old Jamal Crawford, was alive at that point.)
Despite a nip-and-tuck third quarter, in which the lead changed hands six times, the Bucks finally appeared to have things under control as they built up a 10-point lead midway through the fourth.
But despite having nothing to play for but pride, the Suns slugged back with a 31-12 surge over the final 7:37. Kelly Oubre was the unlikely star, scoring 27 points, pulling down 13 rebounds and making a critical late defensive play, stripping the ball off Bucks center Brooks Lopez and out of bounds as the Suns defended a four-point lead with 31.5 seconds left.
Making the victory even sweeter, it followed a report from ESPN posted earlier in the day detailing the franchise's descent into dysfunction with nine straight playoff absences.
It will take an exhaustive effort to reverse that decay.
But for one game at least, things felt a little brighter in the Valley of the Sun.
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:21 pm
by Indy
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:29 pm
Oubre and Bridges are perfect 3&D glue guys. OTOH, TJ doesn't do much defensively and JJ is way too inconsistent offensively.
In a perfect situation I'd only move JJ because I think TJ is an elite 6th man, and I want to believe he'd be playing right now if the team were in a playoff spot battle.
Oubre as a perfect 3&D guy? I realize he has had some great games lately, but he is in his 4th season and:
Has a .320 3P%, never had a season with even 5 boards/game, and didn't even get over 1 steal/game until he got here.
Before I call him a perfect 3&D guy, I want to see a season where he shoots better than league average from 3, and plays defense all the time like he has when he shines of late.
He might have it in him, but he hasn't shown it consistently (and he has been in the league for nearly 4 full years).
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:07 pm
by jonh
https://twitter.com/AshleyNevel/status/ ... 3423733760
I love this interview almost as much as watching the game.
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:07 pm
by Shabazz
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:29 pm
Oubre and Bridges are perfect 3&D glue guys. OTOH, TJ doesn't do much defensively and JJ is way too inconsistent offensively.
In a perfect situation I'd only move JJ because I think TJ is an elite 6th man, and I want to believe he'd be playing right now if the team were in a playoff spot battle.
I view Oubre as more of a high end reserve and I don't think TJ and Oubre are a great on-court fit together.
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:07 am
by INFORMER
Split T wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:56 pm
As I post, 97% of voters want Oubre back
I think it is silly to run that poll after he has essentially his best game of the season in the best win of the season.
I wonder what that poll would have looked like at the beginning of the February where he had 5 straight games of shooting under 36% from the field.
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:12 am
by Hermen
Is "Yes, but only on a good deal" ever a wrong answer?
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:52 pm
by Superbone
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:13 pm
by INFORMER
Split T wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:32 pm
If suns keep Oubre, as it seems like we will, here’s our cap breakdown. I’m assuming we keep Holmes as well as his cap hold is just 1.6 million.
Without draft picks, we’ve got 17 million in space.
Our 1st round pick drops us to anywhere from roughly 8.8(if we land #1) to 12.1(if we land 6)
Brutal. Not even close to enough cap space. Baffling that they punted on the chance to waive and stretch Anderson's contract.
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:26 pm
by The Bobster
INFORMER wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:13 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:32 pm
If suns keep Oubre, as it seems like we will, here’s our cap breakdown. I’m assuming we keep Holmes as well as his cap hold is just 1.6 million.
Without draft picks, we’ve got 17 million in space.
Our 1st round pick drops us to anywhere from roughly 8.8(if we land #1) to 12.1(if we land 6)
Brutal. Not even close to enough cap space. Baffling that they punted on the chance to waive and stretch Anderson's contract.
They punted on having cap space when they signed Booker to an extension last year.
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:27 pm
by Split T
They could just as easily waive and stretch Tyler Johnson as Ryan Anderson
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:31 pm
by carey
Split T wrote:They could just as easily waive and stretch Tyler Johnson as Ryan Anderson
I don't see us making a big signing. We are going to move TJ, JJ, and one of Melton/Okobo. Then trade Bumpy and his $20M expiring by the deadline. We keep our pick too and likely add Cam Redish or Ja Morant to the team.
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:41 pm
by INFORMER
carey wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:31 pm
Split T wrote:They could just as easily waive and stretch Tyler Johnson as Ryan Anderson
I don't see us making a big signing.
They don't need to make a big signing. They need to probably bring in 3 solid vets, and you can't do that with 8 mil.
Veteran #1: TJ McConnell or Ish Smith
Veteran #2: Tomas Satoransky or Jake Layman
Veteran #3: Dewayne Dedmon or Kenneth Faried
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:49 pm
by specialsauce
INFORMER wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:13 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:32 pm
If suns keep Oubre, as it seems like we will, here’s our cap breakdown. I’m assuming we keep Holmes as well as his cap hold is just 1.6 million.
Without draft picks, we’ve got 17 million in space.
Our 1st round pick drops us to anywhere from roughly 8.8(if we land #1) to 12.1(if we land 6)
Brutal. Not even close to enough cap space. Baffling that they punted on the chance to waive and stretch Anderson's contract.
TJ’s contract is essentially $12M of cap space. I see it as an easy contract to flip. So basically we can flip him in a trade for a PG or PF and use the other $8M to sign the other position.
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:52 pm
by Split T
We get the 8.8 million if we land the #1 pick...I’ll gladly take that low number if it means we get Zion. Then as sauce said, move Warren for more space if you want.
More likely, we’ll have 11-12 million in space...if we trade down, like I think we should, that could go up to 15 million.
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:05 am
by JCSunsfan
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:52 pm
We get the 8.8 million if we land the #1 pick...I’ll gladly take that low number if it means we get Zion. Then as sauce said, move Warren for more space if you want.
More likely, we’ll have 11-12 million in space...if we trade down, like I think we should, that could go up to 15 million.
There are options to get more space.
1. Move Warren for future picks. Save $11 mil
2. Cut JJ loose. Save $8 mil
3. Waive and stretch Tyler. Save $11 mil
4. Renegotiate Tyler's deal. He has an ETO, so he could tear up his final year if we stretched him into a long, slightly overpaid deal. Save maybe $7 mil.
5. Let Oubre go, especially if he is offered a silly deal (people are talking 4/80 at the beginning of the year). Save $10 mil from his tender offer.
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:25 am
by Mori Chu
Oubre is going to break our hearts. He is going to want a huge salary that we won't want to pay. Or, if we're really dumb, that we will want to pay. I like Oubre but he won't be worth what he will ask. Part of why WAS dumped him in the first place is because they knew his demands for his next contract and wouldn't meet them. He's playing pretty well for us and will want a fat contract. I'd guess $20m or so. You know, the money that stars like Tyler Johnson make.
I am surprised at some of the comments in this thread where people are saying it would be easy to free up cap space by just trading away some player or cutting / stretching / waiving some player. Yes, you can sometimes do those things. You can cut a guy like JJ, but that's pretty dumb to release the #4 pick in the draft who's on a rookie contract. You can't just trade, say, TJ Warren for cap space. You have to take back almost as much as he makes. And often you have to throw in a pick or other asset to get a deal like that done, which I am loathe to do.
It's easier to have cap space if you don't bungle the space you have, like our front office has. It's pretty sad that we have such an awful team and still won't even have close to enough cap space for one max contract.
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:59 am
by Flagrant Fowl
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:25 am
Oubre is going to break our hearts. He is going to want a huge salary that we won't want to pay. Or, if we're really dumb, that we will want to pay. I like Oubre but he won't be worth what he will ask.
This is where I'm at right now. Maybe he truly wants to stay in Phoenix and he meant all the things he said this week, but I think it's more likely that he's playing the hand he's been dealt to maximize his leverage for the biggest payday of his career.
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:02 am
by Cap
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:59 am
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:25 am
Oubre is going to break our hearts. He is going to want a huge salary that we won't want to pay. Or, if we're really dumb, that we will want to pay. I like Oubre but he won't be worth what he will ask.
This is where I'm at right now. Maybe he truly wants to stay in Phoenix and he meant all the things he said this week, but I think it's more likely that he's playing the hand he's been dealt to maximize his leverage for the biggest payday of his career.
Let’s find out. If he means what he says, we won’t have to outbid the rest of the league for him; he’ll take the first reasonable offer we give him. If he doesn’t, then forget him.
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:20 am
by Split T
Oubre won’t get 20 million...if that’s what he wants, you let him go find that deal because he won’t find someone willing to pay that.
Re: Suns News: Week 20 2/25-3/3
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:37 am
by Split T
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:25 am
I am surprised at some of the comments in this thread where people are saying it would be easy to free up cap space by just trading away some player or cutting / stretching / waiving some player. Yes, you can sometimes do those things. You can cut a guy like JJ, but that's pretty dumb to release the #4 pick in the draft who's on a rookie contract. You can't just trade, say, TJ Warren for cap space. You have to take back almost as much as he makes. And often you have to throw in a pick or other asset to get a deal like that done, which I am loathe to do.
It's easier to have cap space if you don't bungle the space you have, like our front office has. It's pretty sad that we have such an awful team and still won't even have close to enough cap space for one max contract.
I don’t see any max free agents signing here whether we had the space or not...and if we had an indication that one wanted to, we could clear the space pretty easily.
Just renouncing all our free agents gets us to 20-23 million in space. Trade our draft pick and we’re at 28 million in space, which is enough for most max deals.
I think it would be easier to trade warren than you think. He’s a good player on a good contract. If he were a free agent this summer, someone would sign him for more than 3/36, which is what he’s owed. We surely wouldn’t need to add compensation for someone to take him. And while we will want to get something back in return, almost every team will have cap space this summer, so we don’t necessarily have to match salaries.
I agree dumping JJ would be dumb....although moving him for a cheaper player could be an option.
I don’t think we’ll waive and stretch Johnson, but if we’re desperate, that’s an option to open up 12 million in cap space. So, we can still get to 40 million in space if we really need it.
More likely, we’ll use our 12 million in space to bring in 1 or 2 guys...bring in a rookie..and make a couple trades, with Tyler Johnson, TJ Warren, and josh Jackson as the trade bait...along with our picks.