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Re: Game Day: Pacers (1-10) @ Suns (7-5), Thurs 11/13/25
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 5:24 pm
by rhylek
I don't think we'll swap picks with WAS in the near future
Re: Game Day: Pacers (1-10) @ Suns (7-5), Thurs 11/13/25
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 6:05 pm
by pickle
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 12:32 pm
pickle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 8:20 am
I honestly don’t get why anyone would think that the Beal trade sank us. Yes he had a no trade clause and that was a major bitch but he only cost us CP3 who was over the hill and a bunch of 2nd round picks. KD trade was the one that actually cleaned our entire cupboard.
I didn’t like the KD trade at the time and still don’t like it today. KD put up numbers but he did not deliver anywhere near the type of value one would expect from their number one star. Did we have roster issues? Yes we did. But as a number one star KD is deeply flawed and he’s pretty unaware in terms of his impact on a team of players that look up to him. Luckily for Houston they have some tough minded people on their team, starting with Ime.
What??? The Beal trade also cost us 1st round pick swaps with WAS in 2024, 2026, 2028, and 2030. Yes, those are swaps and not outright pick losses (we weren't allowed to trade those 1sts) but swaps can be very costly because now if we have a down season we don't get to keep our own lottery pick. Those swaps are absolutely a huge part of why the Beal trade was so harmful. That plus his no-trade clause made it extremely "all-in' with no picks and no flexibility to move him if it didn't work out. I absolutely think the Beal trade was a disaster and that it is what ultimately sunk the team. Giving up so much for KD was also painful, but at least KD was an All-Star and an asset we could trade later. Beal was an injured bum and couldn't be traded so we had to just cut him and pay his salary until next decade.
https://www.nba.com/news/wizards-suns-t ... chris-paul
I’m pretty sure those swaps were on top of existing swaps. Maybe there was one that we didn’t give up already, I’m not 100% on the details, but it wasn’t like we had control of those picks and gave them up. We were already sure to not enjoy the fruits of our own sucking with the KD trade.
Re: Game Day: Pacers (1-10) @ Suns (7-5), Thurs 11/13/25
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:38 pm
by Split T
Washington was the original swap for most(we had already swapped 2028 to Brooklyn). Memphis/Orlando were the additional swaps.
Just the fact that we had to waive and stretch Beal shows it was a disaster of a trade. The ship was taking on water and we thought Beal might be a rescue ship, but he rammed us and sealed our fate.
Re: Game Day: Pacers (1-10) @ Suns (7-5), Thurs 11/13/25
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 8:08 pm
by pickle
I’ll have to go back and look but I’m too lazy. I was under the impression that we gave up two swaps in the KD trade, but if we sent out three original swaps then the Beal trade was worse than I had remembered.
Just for the record, I’m not saying I like the Beal trade. I just don’t think it was the source of all our problems.
I’d say I have a bit more of a pessimistic approach to team building and probably would’ve done things a lot differently than how we always seem to approach this, and I never really talk about it on this board coz I don’t want to add to the festering anger.
When we made that KD trade I was quite upset. Also I would’ve traded Book and KD two summers ago, and spared their whole fanbase of 2024-25.
Re: Game Day: Pacers (1-10) @ Suns (7-5), Thurs 11/13/25
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2025 3:24 am
by JustWinBaby
Let's just clear the air.
The best hire Ish has made is Gregory.
The best fire he made was James Jones. Would have this roster and this coach, If James Jones was still our GM?
He built those shitty rosters and hired those shitty coaches. Wish him well in the NBA front office.
Re: Game Day: Pacers (1-10) @ Suns (7-5), Thurs 11/13/25
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2025 1:00 pm
by Uncle_Gene
Back to the game. I know it was just the Pacers, but still, just to see the Suns play with intensity and play as a cohesive unit was special to see.
Too bad Grayson got hurt, and will probably miss a few games. Still, just to see this team play with pride and passion is just beautiful.
Keep it up.
Go Suns !!
Re: Game Day: Pacers (1-10) @ Suns (7-5), Thurs 11/13/25
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2025 1:36 pm
by Superbone
JustWinBaby wrote: ↑Sun Nov 16, 2025 3:24 am
Let's just clear the air.
The best hire Ish has made is Gregory.
The best fire he made was James Jones. Would have this roster and this coach, If James Jones was still our GM?
He built those shitty rosters and hired those shitty coaches. Wish him well in the NBA front office.
I don't know about all of that. Jones hired Monty and built our Finals team. I'll be forever grateful to him for that. But things fell apart after that due to the KD and Beal trades and resultant teams were terrible. Very happy for how we have recovered since then so yes, lots of credit to BG so far and I love the Ott hire. We were fools to laugh at the FO for the Michigan State ties. He hired the best young coach period.
I know we have a tougher road coming up but if we can continue to build on what we've done so far, Ott has to be in serious consideration for coach of the year. I hope he's here for a long time to come.
Re: Game Day: Pacers (1-10) @ Suns (7-5), Thurs 11/13/25
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2025 3:01 pm
by Mori Chu
JustWinBaby wrote: ↑Sun Nov 16, 2025 3:24 am
Let's just clear the air.
The best hire Ish has made is Gregory.
The best fire he made was James Jones. Would have this roster and this coach, If James Jones was still our GM?
He built those shitty rosters and hired those shitty coaches. Wish him well in the NBA front office.
We've litigated the James Jones tenure before. I think you're being way too hard on him. Jones isn't the one who forced the KD and Beal trades. Jones patiently put a Finals team together out of the rubble of a depressing lottery team. And we didn't quite win the title, and then the new owner overrode Jones and traded the team away for an "all-in" bet on a Big 3. It failed spectacularly. And then the owner let the GM go.
Re: Game Day: Pacers (1-10) @ Suns (7-5), Thurs 11/13/25
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2025 6:49 pm
by pickle
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Sun Nov 16, 2025 3:01 pm
JustWinBaby wrote: ↑Sun Nov 16, 2025 3:24 am
Let's just clear the air.
The best hire Ish has made is Gregory.
The best fire he made was James Jones. Would have this roster and this coach, If James Jones was still our GM?
He built those shitty rosters and hired those shitty coaches. Wish him well in the NBA front office.
We've litigated the James Jones tenure before. I think you're being way too hard on him. Jones isn't the one who forced the KD and Beal trades. Jones patiently put a Finals team together out of the rubble of a depressing lottery team. And we didn't quite win the title, and then the new owner overrode Jones and traded the team away for an "all-in" bet on a Big 3. It failed spectacularly. And then the owner let the GM go.
I agree with this with the minor caveat that I was quite upset that we picked Stix over Haliburton. Don’t want to keep beating that dead horse tho so I’ll stop here.