Phx-Suns.Net

INFORMER wrote:

OE32 wrote: I still think Bled will be fine, but he's not a guy to build an offense around. He's a 3&D, go to the rack kind of PG, not a creator.

You better hope you're not right.

Do you think Horny and Ryan are building the team around Bledsoe, or adding him to a team they already like?

I don't think McD is building around anyone yet. I think he is still in the mode of just acquiring what he thinks are assets. Waiting for one of those assets to prove they are worth building around or trading a few of them for someone who is.

EDC wrote:I don't think McD is building around anyone yet. I think he is still in the mode of just acquiring what he thinks are assets. Waiting for one of those assets to prove they are worth building around or trading a few of them for someone who is.

That's the impression I get too. I don't think he sees anyone on the team as the alpha dog on a top-tier team.

Indy wrote:

EDC wrote:I don't think McD is building around anyone yet. I think he is still in the mode of just acquiring what he thinks are assets. Waiting for one of those assets to prove they are worth building around or trading a few of them for someone who is.

That's the impression I get too. I don't think he sees anyone on the team as the alpha dog on a top-tier team.

... unless you count Tough Buckets. Which I do. Best #14 pick ever? Sorry, Clyde! Step aside!

Indy wrote:

EDC wrote:I don't think McD is building around anyone yet. I think he is still in the mode of just acquiring what he thinks are assets. Waiting for one of those assets to prove they are worth building around or trading a few of them for someone who is.

That's the impression I get too. I don't think he sees anyone on the team as the alpha dog on a top-tier team.

Yep - McDonough's steady been talking of "accumilating assets and flexibility" despite Babby's talk of continuity, though the former definitely has me worried.

So who are the keepers? That's what us inquiring minds ought to know.....

OE32 wrote:

Indy wrote:

EDC wrote:I don't think McD is building around anyone yet. I think he is still in the mode of just acquiring what he thinks are assets. Waiting for one of those assets to prove they are worth building around or trading a few of them for someone who is.

That's the impression I get too. I don't think he sees anyone on the team as the alpha dog on a top-tier team.

... unless you count Tough Buckets. Which I do. Best #14 pick ever? Sorry, Clyde! Step aside!

You talking Drexler or Frazier? Or someone else?

OE32 wrote:

Indy wrote:

EDC wrote:I don't think McD is building around anyone yet. I think he is still in the mode of just acquiring what he thinks are assets. Waiting for one of those assets to prove they are worth building around or trading a few of them for someone who is.

That's the impression I get too. I don't think he sees anyone on the team as the alpha dog on a top-tier team.

... unless you count Tough Buckets. Which I do. Best #14 pick ever? Sorry, Clyde! Step aside!

Sorry Clyde? I think you mean sorry Thunder Dan!

Indy wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

OE32 wrote: I still think Bled will be fine, but he's not a guy to build an offense around. He's a 3&D, go to the rack kind of PG, not a creator.

You better hope you're not right.

Do you think Horny and Ryan are building the team around Bledsoe, or adding him to a team they already like?

I think there are two things that help to make an argument that they are indeed building around Bledsoe:

1. The contract he received
2. The fact that his presence necessitates taking Dragic away from what he does best

So in your opinion, you say they see him as the cornerstone of a franchise?

As for the two points:

1) He is making less than 35 other guys in the league, which means he is around a top 10% player. I would say that is a little high from what I have seen, but probably only by a couple million. And they weren't going to let him play out this year. I think Sarver is a big gun shy on that.

2) That is a fair point. I assume that is the same for IT and Ennis?

Indy wrote: 2) That is a fair point. I assume that is the same for IT and Ennis?

Ennis would give up the ball a lot at Syracuse. He would bring the ball up the court then pass it off and begin moving off the ball. He has some catch and shoot potential too. So I don't think, if he plays a significant role for the team, he won't be moving Dragic off the ball.

Thomas is different because he can thrive as super sixth man. So Dragic can still be the team's primary ballhandler and initiator.

Good to know about Ennis. I don't watch college ball at all (not because I don't like it, just because I can't cut out time for it), so I appreciate the info.

I still get the feeling that although Ryan is hoping to see a beast in Bledsoe at some point, he isn't expecting it to happen and already building a team around him. If he was, do you see the Morrii fitting into that mold to support him, or were they much more of a "we love to have them around, and they are good but not great players" move, having nothing to do with building around Bledsoe?

The latter. I don't think they put much thought into the basketball fit aspect of it. And I also think it had a lot to do with the success from last season. Markieff was a main part of that so they really wanted to retain him.

Keef is an all-around type of player who will never be a star but has the potential to be a solid part of a starting line-up IF there are other players who are stars. He plays solid but not spectacular D, will make you pay if you leave him open anywhere, passes willingly. His major flaw is rebounding. He is a younger version of Scola.

I wish he had Scola P&R skills.

JCSunsfan wrote:Keef is an all-around type of player who will never be a star but has the potential to be a solid part of a starting line-up IF there are other players who are stars. He plays solid but not spectacular D, will make you pay if you leave him open anywhere, passes willingly. His major flaw is rebounding. He is a younger version of Scola.

I think the major flaw I see offensively is that he doesn't move that well with the ball (to INF's point on P&R) but he still spends most of his time 12-15 feet away from the hoop. That kills his chances of rebounding on the offensive glass because he isn't quick enough to make up that distance like Marion could. On the defensive side, I think he is usually on guys stronger than him, or faster than him--he is like right in the middle of those two PF extremes of the Millsap and the old Suns-time Marion. But that honestly could just be a product of the fact we don't have much of a front court to start with, and haven't had a true starting C on our roster his entire time here.

Last year Kieff worked the offensive glass more than this season. Actually, the twins, Plumlee and PJ combined were much more productive there.

Defensively he is below average, and I think it's a matter of IQ-awareness combined with the problems consequence of his tweener frame. Kieff is often just looking at the play, and when he reacts it's too late and usually means just commiting an avoidable foul since he is regularly at a physical disadvantage. The shortcommings at the center position don't do him any favors, that also true.

He is showing that he can be a capable starter thanks to his refined midrange offense, but maybe his best impact for the team would come off the bench, along with his brother. That's one of the reasons why I don't think their deals are bad. I believe they are great chemistry guys who want to improve, but could be easily convinced to take one for the team and do a bench role, especially if they spend their minutes together. Of course, in order to do that you need to have a better/more complete starter, but that's another story.

Ring_Wanted wrote:He is showing that he can be a capable starter thanks to his refined midrange offense, but maybe his best impact for the team would come off the bench, along with his brother. That's one of the reasons why I don't think their deals are bad. I believe they are great chemistry guys who want to improve, but could be easily convinced to take one for the team and do a bench role, especially if they spend their minutes together. Of course, in order to do that you need to have a better/more complete starter, but that's another story.

I agree. It's just they aren't being paid like bench guys. Kieff, Marcus, and Tucker make $18Mil combined and all 3 are marginal starters. It wouldn't be such a big deal if their contracts didn't preclude us from signing a starting quality SF & PF, but they do. At least until the cap goes up as it has been projected to.

carey wrote:

Ring_Wanted wrote:He is showing that he can be a capable starter thanks to his refined midrange offense, but maybe his best impact for the team would come off the bench, along with his brother. That's one of the reasons why I don't think their deals are bad. I believe they are great chemistry guys who want to improve, but could be easily convinced to take one for the team and do a bench role, especially if they spend their minutes together. Of course, in order to do that you need to have a better/more complete starter, but that's another story.

I agree. It's just they aren't being paid like bench guys. Kieff, Marcus, and Tucker make $18Mil combined and all 3 are marginal starters. It wouldn't be such a big deal if their contracts didn't preclude us from signing a starting quality SF & PF, but they do. At least until the cap goes up as it has been projected to.

But they don't. The Morrii are on their rookie contracts. They make under 3 each.

8M for a starter/6MOY caliber PF is value, and 5M per is bench money. In my opinion those are solid contracts in the NBA today, without needing to wait until the cap raises.

Logjam, no time for rookies, etc are different and legitimate issues, but in terms of performance, those guys are giving you your money's worth, and I have no doubt that they are tradeable. Bledsoe is the big gamble on that front due to health, but at the same time his talent is at a much higher level.

The big letdown to me was entering the summer with max cap space and a 50 wins roster already in place and not being able to attract the real difference makers at SF/PF or C, either via FA or trade, while knowing that rookie contracts end and you have to pay or take steps back with nothing to show for it.

The Bledsoe deal isn't a horrible contract, but he certainly isn't consistently living up to it so far this season. It's not so much that any individual contract we signed this past offseason is horrible; they're all pretty defensible. It's that we are now close to capped out and can't improve much from this point, and that's worrying given that we don't look improved from last year so far.