Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:53 pm
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Every season you can make the argument for why "this year will be different." What you're ignoring is the improvements the rest of the West is making around us. I think the only team in the conference not actively pushing to make the playoffs is the Grizzlies. Everyone else is making moves to better themselves or have a developing core (not counting the Warriors or Rockets in this conversation).Split T wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:35 pmI also don’t think we’ll suck this year. I haven’t been thrilled with our offseason, but it’s hard to argue that we didn’t get better. Our best stretch last year was when Tyler/Booker/Bridges/Oubre/Ayton were all healthy and playing. We went 5-2 over a 7 game stretch. All those guys are back and will have improved. Plus we added Saric, Baynes, Johnson, and will sign a FA PG. Even if you don’t think Johnson will contribute much as a rookie, we’ll have 8 actual competent NBA players next season. Possibly 9 or 10 if the rookies do anything.specialsauce wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:17 pmFixed that for you. Nobody’s coming to Phx in FA unless we turn this clown show around first.
I wasn’t necessarily commenting on our ability to finish higher in the standings than other teams. Just our level of competence. We often were just an embarrassment on the court. I also don’t know how you follow this post up with the fact that our starting pg is the 37th best free agent pg on the market and not see how big of a difference having a good pg will make.Shabazz wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:18 pmEvery season you can make the argument for why "this year will be different." What you're ignoring is the improvements the rest of the West is making around us. I think the only team in the conference not actively pushing to make the playoffs is the Grizzlies. Everyone else is making moves to better themselves or have a developing core (not counting the Warriors or Rockets in this conversation).Split T wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:35 pmI also don’t think we’ll suck this year. I haven’t been thrilled with our offseason, but it’s hard to argue that we didn’t get better. Our best stretch last year was when Tyler/Booker/Bridges/Oubre/Ayton were all healthy and playing. We went 5-2 over a 7 game stretch. All those guys are back and will have improved. Plus we added Saric, Baynes, Johnson, and will sign a FA PG. Even if you don’t think Johnson will contribute much as a rookie, we’ll have 8 actual competent NBA players next season. Possibly 9 or 10 if the rookies do anything.specialsauce wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:17 pmFixed that for you. Nobody’s coming to Phx in FA unless we turn this clown show around first.
We're pointing to a 5-2 stretch last year as a badge of honor. We've brought in 2 rookies and 2 rotation players. We lost one rotation player. Most teams brought in a rookie or two. Let's call Warren and Saric about the same in terms of talent. So compared to the rest of the West we basically added a Baynes-level player. Who exactly did we leapfrog with that move?
If everything goes right next season, we're probably topping out at 30 wins. I thought we'd be around there last season, too. Of course, everything doesn't always go right and more often than not, many things go wrong. That brings us back into the 20-win range.
Still a ton of work to be done.
I think we're on the same page. I agree that last season was a dumpster fire and that's what I was trying to highlight with the follow up post. I'm just saying I just think we need to aim higher considering how far back we were starting and the improvements other teams in the West are making.Split T wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:22 pmI wasn’t necessarily commenting on our ability to finish higher in the standings than other teams. Just our level of competence. We often were just an embarrassment on the court. I also don’t know how you follow this post up with the fact that our starting pg is the 37th best free agent pg on the market and not see how big of a difference having a good pg will make.Shabazz wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:18 pmEvery season you can make the argument for why "this year will be different." What you're ignoring is the improvements the rest of the West is making around us. I think the only team in the conference not actively pushing to make the playoffs is the Grizzlies. Everyone else is making moves to better themselves or have a developing core (not counting the Warriors or Rockets in this conversation).Split T wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:35 pmI also don’t think we’ll suck this year. I haven’t been thrilled with our offseason, but it’s hard to argue that we didn’t get better. Our best stretch last year was when Tyler/Booker/Bridges/Oubre/Ayton were all healthy and playing. We went 5-2 over a 7 game stretch. All those guys are back and will have improved. Plus we added Saric, Baynes, Johnson, and will sign a FA PG. Even if you don’t think Johnson will contribute much as a rookie, we’ll have 8 actual competent NBA players next season. Possibly 9 or 10 if the rookies do anything.specialsauce wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:17 pmFixed that for you. Nobody’s coming to Phx in FA unless we turn this clown show around first.
We're pointing to a 5-2 stretch last year as a badge of honor. We've brought in 2 rookies and 2 rotation players. We lost one rotation player. Most teams brought in a rookie or two. Let's call Warren and Saric about the same in terms of talent. So compared to the rest of the West we basically added a Baynes-level player. Who exactly did we leapfrog with that move?
If everything goes right next season, we're probably topping out at 30 wins. I thought we'd be around there last season, too. Of course, everything doesn't always go right and more often than not, many things go wrong. That brings us back into the 20-win range.
Still a ton of work to be done.
Other thoughts. Warren was not a rotation player when we were winning games. I don’t count him as a loss at all. Saric replaces Bender. That’s a huge win in my book. Baynes replaces Holmes. TBD on that one. And we’re probably looking at someone like Rubio, Jones, or Satoransky replacing Melton/Okobo. Another big win. Then Tyler/Cam/Jerome replace Josh Jackson. Then add improvements from Booker/Ayton/Bridges/Oubre and I don’t see how that isn’t pretty significant improvements.
That’s not going to put us in the playoffs. As you said, the west is loaded and almost everyone is trying to get better and win. Not everyone will though...there is a lot of cap space out there this summer, but not enough stars to go around. We have done most of our necessary shopping and just need to find a pg. The top end guys probably are out of reach for us, but there is a significantly large pool of pg free agents this summer. We’ll get one.
I like it better that way.
Are you saying a guy that just joined the elusive 50/40/90 club can't hit a spot up jumper? He's literally better at shooting at every level than DAR. By A LOT. Like a lot, a lot.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
But on this team I think Russell is a much better fit. We need a guy to handle the ball and run the offense so that we don't have to watch Point Booker all game any more. We need a guy who will go get his own shot, drive to the basket, pull up, and who can also take a pass and hit an open shot. Russell is better at all of those than Brogdon, other than the spot-up shooting. Brogdon would be a great player if we had a Harden or a Giannis, a guy who was going to have the ball 90% of the time. We don't. We need a playmaker and PG to run the offense. That's Russell. Kind of a KJ-type PG. Brogdon strikes me as more of a rich man's Derek Fisher. I don't think that is what we really need.
I think he’s saying Russell is better at everything other than shootingcarey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:14 pmAre you saying a guy that just joined the elusive 50/40/90 club can't hit a spot up jumper? He's literally better at shooting at every level than DAR. By A LOT. Like a lot, a lot.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
But on this team I think Russell is a much better fit. We need a guy to handle the ball and run the offense so that we don't have to watch Point Booker all game any more. We need a guy who will go get his own shot, drive to the basket, pull up, and who can also take a pass and hit an open shot. Russell is better at all of those than Brogdon, other than the spot-up shooting. Brogdon would be a great player if we had a Harden or a Giannis, a guy who was going to have the ball 90% of the time. We don't. We need a playmaker and PG to run the offense. That's Russell. Kind of a KJ-type PG. Brogdon strikes me as more of a rich man's Derek Fisher. I don't think that is what we really need.
I'd also be curious to see their percentage on unassisted shots.Split T wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:24 pmI think he’s saying Russell is better at everything other than shootingcarey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:14 pmAre you saying a guy that just joined the elusive 50/40/90 club can't hit a spot up jumper? He's literally better at shooting at every level than DAR. By A LOT. Like a lot, a lot.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
But on this team I think Russell is a much better fit. We need a guy to handle the ball and run the offense so that we don't have to watch Point Booker all game any more. We need a guy who will go get his own shot, drive to the basket, pull up, and who can also take a pass and hit an open shot. Russell is better at all of those than Brogdon, other than the spot-up shooting. Brogdon would be a great player if we had a Harden or a Giannis, a guy who was going to have the ball 90% of the time. We don't. We need a playmaker and PG to run the offense. That's Russell. Kind of a KJ-type PG. Brogdon strikes me as more of a rich man's Derek Fisher. I don't think that is what we really need.
After 51 years, what else could you possibly want out of this team besides a title? Of course it's worth it. Why would I care about the team's future or dignity if we win a title? Our dignity went out the window when Sarver bought the team, and I'll be happy with just one title. If I was a Cavs fan I would be happy we won a title.Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:16 pmI remember the last time we apeased one of our “Stars” by bringing over his Bro, and how well that went. Of course you can argue that Booker is a real Star, but he hasn’t lifted this team so much either, he sometimes looks just like our “star by default”. Even if you want to consider him a Star big enough to demand this, all the Lebron teams had to pay a very high price onterms of money, dignity, future and flesh, to keep the King happy, not sure if a title is worth it, but I’m pretty sure Booker is way down on the posibilities to bring a title by himself the way Lebron does, so enabling him that way, is not wise in my opinion.
If Russell is worth it, sign him, if he values playing with his buddy high enough to leave money on the table, sign him if the discount is big enough. If Monty says he can work around Russell’s shortcomings and develop him, fine, sign him. But allow Russell to use us to get a max contract riding his friend’s leverage with a team is Lebronesque enough to pass, as well as letting Booker dictate terms “or else” is a recipe for failure, and to act prematurely moved by fear, is the worst. If the kid is as mature as the say, he will understand, and if frustration boils over, well so be it, sell him soon enough and under the radar, (something McD was famous for doing perfectly in the totally opposed way, and probably has caused some traumas around here),