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Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:25 pm
by TOO
Suns are gonna be stuck with Ayton, I dont believe the market is as nearly as robust as some talking heads online think it is. Everyone sees the issues with motor and hustle, his lack of offensive development, his defensive regression, and then the contract. Gonna take a team thinking they can fix him, and I just dont see it, especially with the new CBA coming, you have to wise about spending your money, and blowing a bunch of money on a half ass C is just bad business.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:36 pm
by Split T
Ya feels like we either gonna have to take bad contracts back(Like THJ and Bertans) or hope Vogel does rehabilitate him…or at least his value.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:52 pm
by Superbone
TOO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:25 pm
Suns are gonna be stuck with Ayton, I dont believe the market is as nearly as robust as some talking heads online think it is.
Everyone sees the issues with motor and hustle, his lack of offensive development, his defensive regression, and then the contract. Gonna take a team thinking they can fix him, and I just dont see it, especially with the new CBA coming, you have to wise about spending your money, and blowing a bunch of money on a half ass C is just bad business.
Everyone?!
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2023 3:05 pm
by TOO
Superbone wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:52 pm
TOO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:25 pm
Suns are gonna be stuck with Ayton, I dont believe the market is as nearly as robust as some talking heads online think it is.
Everyone sees the issues with motor and hustle, his lack of offensive development, his defensive regression, and then the contract. Gonna take a team thinking they can fix him, and I just dont see it, especially with the new CBA coming, you have to wise about spending your money, and blowing a bunch of money on a half ass C is just bad business.
Everyone?!
He sees it too, now whether he admits it or not, I can't help there.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2023 3:17 pm
by Split T
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2023 4:05 pm
by ShelC
Yea I'm sure we could give him away and take on players we wouldn't necessarily want or guys on bad contracts but there's a point where you're obviously better off keeping him.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2023 7:18 pm
by Gladiator
I think there’s still a world where we get a good haul in an Ayton trade with a team that feels pressure to make a move after missing out on their top choice. It just may take a while for that to happen
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2023 7:53 pm
by INFORMER
This the other side of the "match the contract, you can't lose him for nothing!" approach.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:42 am
by TOO
INFORMER wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 7:53 pm
This the other side of the "match the contract, you can't lose him for nothing!" approach.
It's a very unfortunate situation.
It's like when 2 people who should get divorced have a kid thinking it's gonna save the marriage.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:04 am
by JeremyG
TOO wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:42 am
INFORMER wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 7:53 pm
This the other side of the "match the contract, you can't lose him for nothing!" approach.
It's a very unfortunate situation.
It's like when 2 people who should get divorced have a kid thinking it's gonna save the marriage.
It’s a wonderful situation. Vogel gets to turn him into an All-Star.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:12 am
by JeremyG
TOO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 3:05 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:52 pm
TOO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:25 pm
Suns are gonna be stuck with Ayton, I dont believe the market is as nearly as robust as some talking heads online think it is.
Everyone sees the issues with motor and hustle, his lack of offensive development, his defensive regression, and then the contract. Gonna take a team thinking they can fix him, and I just dont see it, especially with the new CBA coming, you have to wise about spending your money, and blowing a bunch of money on a half ass C is just bad business.
Everyone?!
He sees it too, now whether he admits it or not, I can't help there.
“issues with motor and hustle” = only a small part of the time, mainly due to playing for a coach who didn’t want him on the roster
“lack of offensive development” = mainly due to poor coaching (both schemes and development) but he already has enough to average over 20 ppg if utilized (obviously—he averaged 21/12 per 36).
“defensive regression” = due to playing for a coach who didn’t want him plus not being involved enough in the offense
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:20 am
by Superbone
JeremyG wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:12 am
TOO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 3:05 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:52 pm
TOO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:25 pm
Suns are gonna be stuck with Ayton, I dont believe the market is as nearly as robust as some talking heads online think it is.
Everyone sees the issues with motor and hustle, his lack of offensive development, his defensive regression, and then the contract. Gonna take a team thinking they can fix him, and I just dont see it, especially with the new CBA coming, you have to wise about spending your money, and blowing a bunch of money on a half ass C is just bad business.
Everyone?!
He sees it too, now whether he admits it or not, I can't help there.
“issues with motor and hustle” = only a small part of the time, mainly due to playing for a coach who didn’t want him on the roster
“lack of offensive development” = mainly due to poor coaching (both schemes and development) but he already has enough to average over 20 ppg if utilized (obviously—he averaged 21/12 per 36).
“defensive regression” = due to playing for a coach who didn’t want him plus not being involved enough in the offense
So none of it is Ayton's fault or on him. Got it.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:24 am
by JeremyG
Superbone wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:20 am
JeremyG wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:12 am
TOO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 3:05 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:52 pm
TOO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:25 pm
Suns are gonna be stuck with Ayton, I dont believe the market is as nearly as robust as some talking heads online think it is.
Everyone sees the issues with motor and hustle, his lack of offensive development, his defensive regression, and then the contract. Gonna take a team thinking they can fix him, and I just dont see it, especially with the new CBA coming, you have to wise about spending your money, and blowing a bunch of money on a half ass C is just bad business.
Everyone?!
He sees it too, now whether he admits it or not, I can't help there.
“issues with motor and hustle” = only a small part of the time, mainly due to playing for a coach who didn’t want him on the roster
“lack of offensive development” = mainly due to poor coaching (both schemes and development) but he already has enough to average over 20 ppg if utilized (obviously—he averaged 21/12 per 36).
“defensive regression” = due to playing for a coach who didn’t want him plus not being involved enough in the offense
So none of it is Ayton's fault or on him. Got it.
Never said that. I’m saying the issues are explainable and should not be expected to be a big issue moving forward.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:33 am
by Nodack
JeremyG wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:12 am
TOO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 3:05 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:52 pm
TOO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:25 pm
Suns are gonna be stuck with Ayton, I dont believe the market is as nearly as robust as some talking heads online think it is.
Everyone sees the issues with motor and hustle, his lack of offensive development, his defensive regression, and then the contract. Gonna take a team thinking they can fix him, and I just dont see it, especially with the new CBA coming, you have to wise about spending your money, and blowing a bunch of money on a half ass C is just bad business.
Everyone?!
He sees it too, now whether he admits it or not, I can't help there.
“issues with motor and hustle” = only a small part of the time, mainly due to playing for a coach who didn’t want him on the roster
“lack of offensive development” = mainly due to poor coaching (both schemes and development) but he already has enough to average over 20 ppg if utilized (obviously—he averaged 21/12 per 36).
“defensive regression” = due to playing for a coach who didn’t want him plus not being involved enough in the offense
So you are saying he wasn’t trying because he didn’t felt he was wanted? A Max contract should be an indication that you are wanted. Lots of players barely get any playing time and when they do come in they are working their asses off to prove to the coach they deserve more playing time. Ayton was picked #1, given a max contract and is the starter but, wasn’t given enough love to warrant putting out effort all the time? Pfft.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:56 am
by TOO
JeremyG wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:12 am
TOO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 3:05 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:52 pm
TOO wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:25 pm
Suns are gonna be stuck with Ayton, I dont believe the market is as nearly as robust as some talking heads online think it is.
Everyone sees the issues with motor and hustle, his lack of offensive development, his defensive regression, and then the contract. Gonna take a team thinking they can fix him, and I just dont see it, especially with the new CBA coming, you have to wise about spending your money, and blowing a bunch of money on a half ass C is just bad business.
Everyone?!
He sees it too, now whether he admits it or not, I can't help there.
“issues with motor and hustle” = only a small part of the time, mainly due to playing for a coach who didn’t want him on the roster
“lack of offensive development” = mainly due to poor coaching (both schemes and development) but he already has enough to average over 20 ppg if utilized (obviously—he averaged 21/12 per 36).
“defensive regression” = due to playing for a coach who didn’t want him plus not being involved enough in the offense
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 2:58 pm
by JeremyG
Split T wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 3:17 pm
In other words, those teams will pivot to Ayton when our roster is already set with free agents that we promised playing time so they'd sign for less.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:26 am
by Mori Chu
JeremyG wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:04 am
It’s a wonderful situation. Vogel gets to turn him into an All-Star.
James Jones will turn him into an All-Star. For another team.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 7:08 am
by Kryptonic
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:26 am
JeremyG wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:04 am
It’s a wonderful situation. Vogel gets to turn him into an All-Star.
James Jones will turn him into an All-Star. For another team.
I love how it’s everyone else’s job to turn him into something than him… it’s everyone else’s fault bullshit is hilarious and laughable. As someone who’s disabled, and fight to do normal things this is the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard and continue to hear from jeremyg. You’re defending a giant pussy.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 7:27 am
by ShelC
“They need some guys who can do things besides score, and let’s face it, Ayton does a few things pretty well but scoring is the top thing,” one Western Conference executive said. “So if Phoenix brought him back, he is the No. 4 option, he is getting maybe 10, 11 shots a game. That’s not happening. There is a good chance you will see Indiana circle back and see if they can get him now, and not give up too much to make it happen. Ayton and (Tyrese) Halliburton? That would be a really nice combo...They (the Suns) are confident they can get something done,” the exec said. “Not everybody is going to get just what they want in the next two weeks in the draft and trades and free agency, and if Deandre is not already gone, he is going to look very good to a team like Portland or Charlotte or Dallas.”
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 12:34 pm
by Drewsprocket
Oh we’re getting picks for Ayton and a 5th or 6th man. If we trade him to a team under the cap do we get a trade exemption?