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Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:01 pm

I'm not at all surprised. Both guys have their own set of issues that makes them difficult to coach for just about anyone.

Some coaches (Frank Vogel?) embrace challenging players rather than run from them and sabotage their roster in the middle of the summer behind their GM’s back.

Yeah, Monty Williams runs away from challenges. Good one.

Edited it to more carefully say what I meant.

What was the deleted tweet?

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:40 pm

What was the deleted tweet?

Crowder saying something like, “AWW MAN THATS REALLY HOW YOU FELT COACH? ”

(Did I get the gist of it? )

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:40 pm

Edited it to more carefully say what I meant.

Are you trying to say Monty didn't embrace challenging Crowder and Ayton? If so, how could you possibly know that?

Plenty of blame to go around on this one. Crowder went into full pout mode and got paid well sitting on his ass. Ayton pouted all year and hurt the team. Monty, who'as the coach is supposed to show leadership, didnn;t talk to Ayton all summer after they matched his offer sheet, and has apparently let personality conflicts affect his coaching.

About the only good thing I can say is that the three of them did a good job of keeping it out of the press. And this might be a large part of why Monty was shown the door.

Yes, and it's not like Monty gave up on these guys after half a season or something.

It's likely he thought that they weren't responding to his coaching and was giving feedback to the front office on how he could get the most out of the roster. Putting him down like he's inept at the interpersonal relationship part of his job is ridiculous, especially when we're referencing two guys who aren't exactly easy to manage or motivate.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:44 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:40 pm

Edited it to more carefully say what I meant.

Are you trying to say Monty didn't embrace challenging Crowder and Ayton? If so, how could you possibly know that?

No, I was referring to Ayton and Crowder as being challenging players to deal with.

Absolutely damning...

If it's true that Williams wanted Ayton traded for Myles Turner, then maybe he'd be a good GM?

For what it's worth, I think he'll do very well in Detroit, starting that team's culture back in the right direction again. He'll still need to learn to adapt better when/if they're ready for the playoffs, though.

Ya I wanted Ayton traded for Turner too

Lots of blame…Ayton for whatever reason Monty didn’t like him. Monty for letting the problem get bigger and James Jones for keeping them together.

If this is true, I think the worst part is having players on the bench who might help and not playing them because you want to "roll with your guys".

We all joked about Shamet and Monty for quite a while, but if he was playing Shamet simply because he was one of "his guys" it's unfortunate.

Monty's standing as a "player's coach" establishing a team culture may have been significant in getting them to the Finals, but it apparently all fell apart at some point.

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 19, 2023 8:00 pm

If this is true, I think the worst part is having players on the bench who might help and not playing them because you want to "roll with your guys".

I'd be more accepting of this if he had a fair bit longer to figure it out. The playoffs isn't really a time to start throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks, and that's basically all the time he had.

Ya I’m not too concerned with that…it’s not like Ross and Warren did great things for us anyways. When it said he stuck with his guys I take that to mean he played the guys he trusted…not that Warren and Ross were clearly better and he played Shamet instead.

You guys think nepo-baby Shamet will sign another unwarranted 4 year extension in Washington?

Monty’s mistake was playing Shamet the first game of the Denver series when Payne was available. He waited until game 3 to give Payne some run.

I know you all like to shit on Payne, but he’s been the barometer of this team. Our uptick started with his signing and all our successes have been when he’s been at his best.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:42 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:40 pm

What was the deleted tweet?

Crowder saying something like, “AWW MAN THATS REALLY HOW YOU FELT COACH? ”

(Did I get the gist of it? )

You just have to work on the punctuation. End it like this: "...REALLY HOW YOU FELT COACH.?"