Phx-Suns.Net

iLLmatic wrote:

carey wrote:

In2ition wrote: Especially with that video that just came out.

The one of Kyrie mocking the LeBron workout videos? Seems harmless but we all know James has Donald Trump skin, and I don't mean it's orange.

Laughing at your enemy make fun of your teammate doesn't seem "harmless" to me.

Enemies? They are on different basketball teams...

the thing is, it's hard for teams to evaluate the merits of kyrie's problem with lebron and him wanting out in cleveland. i actually believe the flat earth thing plays a part in everyone's evaluation of his judgement. still, i'd love to have him here. basketball is not rocket science or astrophysics. what's important is that his basketball skills are a scientific wonder. to give what cleveland wants, however, he would have to have already demonstrated he can be a leader that his teammates can look up to.

In2ition wrote:Have you guys seen the twitter crap that's come out recently? I've had to defend Booker from idiot national writers and trade assets from troll Spur and Cav fans.

No. Please share.

carey wrote:

SDC wrote:phoenix not gonna tank next season with kyrie, yes?

Sure they will. He's not *that* much better than Bledsoe. May win us an extra handful of games. I'd be surprised if we pick out of the top 5 if we lose Bledsoe plus one of Warren/Chriss/Bender.

When Bledsoe's knees shatter like glass next season and he's never the same for the rest of his career, we can dig this comment back up. Really the trade of (Bledsoe + JJ + pick) for Kyrie is an absolute steal for us and we should take it immediately. If you think about it, Bledsoe's value is about to plummet. He'll soon be essentially worthless as an asset IMO. And you wouldn't want him on your team anyway if you already had Irving. So it's really just (JJ + pick) for Kyrie. That is more than fair. I would bet my life savings that Kyrie Irving will make more all-star and all-NBA teams and have more playoff successes for the rest of his career than Josh Jackson will.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

carey wrote:

SDC wrote:phoenix not gonna tank next season with kyrie, yes?

Sure they will. He's not *that* much better than Bledsoe. May win us an extra handful of games. I'd be surprised if we pick out of the top 5 if we lose Bledsoe plus one of Warren/Chriss/Bender.

When Bledsoe's knees shatter like glass next season and he's never the same for the rest of his career, we can dig this comment back up. Really the trade of (Bledsoe + JJ + pick) for Kyrie is an absolute steal for us and we should take it immediately. If you think about it, Bledsoe's value is about to plummet. He'll soon be essentially worthless as an asset IMO. And you wouldn't want him on your team anyway if you already had Irving. So it's really just (JJ + pick) for Kyrie. That is more than fair. I would bet my life savings that Kyrie Irving will make more all-star and all-NBA teams and have more playoff successes for the rest of his career than Josh Jackson will.

Bold statement, without Lebron pumping his value up. I was thinking your claim would end in "... Eric Bledsoe will" and about to nod, but Josh already has shown flashes of potential. Kirye has a big lead on already achieved success, but if Irving goes to a bottom team, he could be in for a Bledsoe's accolades career from here and ahead.

Interesting how you present the Bledsoe's trading timeline, moved me a lot since I'm in the "let's cash in Eric today" bandwagon, but if Irving turns out just a regular size Monta Ellis, or even the second comig of Isaiah Thomas, JJ+ Picks can be a lateral move, but into a basketball style we dislike, heck, they are all a bunch of anti Rubios, so think about it.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

carey wrote:

SDC wrote:phoenix not gonna tank next season with kyrie, yes?

Sure they will. He's not *that* much better than Bledsoe. May win us an extra handful of games. I'd be surprised if we pick out of the top 5 if we lose Bledsoe plus one of Warren/Chriss/Bender.

When Bledsoe's knees shatter like glass next season and he's never the same for the rest of his career, we can dig this comment back up. Really the trade of (Bledsoe + JJ + pick) for Kyrie is an absolute steal for us and we should take it immediately. If you think about it, Bledsoe's value is about to plummet. He'll soon be essentially worthless as an asset IMO. And you wouldn't want him on your team anyway if you already had Irving. So it's really just (JJ + pick) for Kyrie. That is more than fair. I would bet my life savings that Kyrie Irving will make more all-star and all-NBA teams and have more playoff successes for the rest of his career than Josh Jackson will.

I'm also one of those who thinks Bledsoe is at the peek of his value, but I just can't go with you here. Bled could be traded to a few other teams. You can't count his value out. A bad trade to dump a player is still a bad trade.

Beyond that, I'm not convinced that Jackson won't be a better all around player than Kyrie. I love KI's scoring, but he is average or worse at every other aspect of the game. Jackson won't be a great scorer, but he has a chance to be great at every other aspect of the game. A great defender, a great passer, great in the locker room, an above average rebounder.

Another way to think about it: Who out west is Kyrie better than? Harden, Westbrook, & Curry are clearly better. Chris Paul plying for Mike D is going to have a resurgence. Does 25/6 on a 35 win team get Irving to the allstar game? He's a great scorer, but he's not a great all around player. For sure, he's one of the best 8 PG in the NBA. You could possibly rate him as high as #4.

Jackson + lottery pick in a deep draft + solid starting PG.

Heard Cavs/Suns are at an impass over which pick will be given up not Josh Jackson.

Cavs want Chriss+Bled+Suns pick unprotected.
Suns want Bledsoe/Chriss/Miamis pick.

If I'm phoenix I'm holding firm with Bled/Chriss/Heat Pick until Cavs find another offer even close. Who offers them a player who is very good and also best friends with Lebron like we can? If Minnesota offers Wiggins that's the only way I see this tipping.

Giving up Chriss might actually help in the long run. It gives all the PF mins to Bender and avoids the staff investing in a guy who I don't think will ever be what they think he will be.

Yea Mori, I agree with you on Bledsoe's value. But I don't think giving up Jackson or an unprotected, most likely top 6, 1st in a loaded draft is worth it with a guy who has a bunch of question marks. Some about him personally and some about how he'd fit with a team where he won't taste success right away.

General questions
A) Will he stay here past 2 years? (we aren't contending in his original contract)
B) Does he prioritize "being the man" over winning? What if we're 35-15 at the all-star break but Booker is getting all the headlines? Will Irving be happy?

Questions about fit with us
C) He has the same weakness as our best player. Can we succeed having 1 of the worst defensive backcourts in the "L"?
D) He is a shoot first PG on a team where, I believe, has a bunch of players who need a facilitator to maximize their potential. Can that be detrimental to development?

All that being said he's a hell of a talent and would sure help us next summer trying to add a superstar big. I just don't think I'm gambling with top 5 picks hoping all of those things go our way.

https://twitter.com/BrianSampsonNBA/status/891636455746961410 Here is some of it.

Sunsfan4life wrote:Heard Cavs/Suns are at an impass over which pick will be given up not Josh Jackson.

Cavs want Chriss+Bled+Suns pick unprotected.
Suns want Bledsoe/Chriss/Miamis pick.

If I'm phoenix I'm holding firm with Bled/Chriss/Heat Pick until Cavs find another offer even close. Who offers them a player who is very good and also best friends with Lebron like we can? If Minnesota offers Wiggins that's the only way I see this tipping.

Giving up Chriss might actually help in the long run. It gives all the PF mins to Bender and avoids the staff investing in a guy who I don't think will ever be what they think he will be.

I'd do Bledsoe/Chriss/Miamis in a heartbeat.

I might offer Bledsoe/Chriss/Best 2018 pick top 6 protected or something.

In2ition wrote:https://twitter.com/BrianSampsonNBA/status/891636455746961410 Here is some of it.

If scoring is not all it's cracked up to be, then Booker is better than Irving. Irving literally only scores. Booker is a better passer, better teammate, and better at drawing fouls.

I think we do tend to overrate who Booker is now, but you can't say Booker is overrated in one breath while banging your chest for Kyrie.

The other thing too is Devin is 20 years old. He isn't close to his prime yet. He isn't as well rounded a player as others, but with the work ethic and demeanor we've seen from this kid, he'll steadily improve on what he already is in the coming years. If he was like 24 or 25 I could understand the argument.

O_Gardino wrote:

Sunsfan4life wrote:Heard Cavs/Suns are at an impass over which pick will be given up not Josh Jackson.

Cavs want Chriss+Bled+Suns pick unprotected.
Suns want Bledsoe/Chriss/Miamis pick.

If I'm phoenix I'm holding firm with Bled/Chriss/Heat Pick until Cavs find another offer even close. Who offers them a player who is very good and also best friends with Lebron like we can? If Minnesota offers Wiggins that's the only way I see this tipping.

Giving up Chriss might actually help in the long run. It gives all the PF mins to Bender and avoids the staff investing in a guy who I don't think will ever be what they think he will be.

I'd do Bledsoe/Chriss/Miamis in a heartbeat.

I might offer Bledsoe/Chriss/Best 2018 pick top 6 protected or something.

The other rumor is Suns are pushing Waren instead of Chriss. I'd rather do Chriss instead of Warren honestly, but thats just me.

Sunsfan4life wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

Sunsfan4life wrote:Heard Cavs/Suns are at an impass over which pick will be given up not Josh Jackson.

Cavs want Chriss+Bled+Suns pick unprotected.
Suns want Bledsoe/Chriss/Miamis pick.

If I'm phoenix I'm holding firm with Bled/Chriss/Heat Pick until Cavs find another offer even close. Who offers them a player who is very good and also best friends with Lebron like we can? If Minnesota offers Wiggins that's the only way I see this tipping.

Giving up Chriss might actually help in the long run. It gives all the PF mins to Bender and avoids the staff investing in a guy who I don't think will ever be what they think he will be.

I'd do Bledsoe/Chriss/Miamis in a heartbeat.

I might offer Bledsoe/Chriss/Best 2018 pick top 6 protected or something.

The other rumor is Suns are pushing Waren instead of Chriss. I'd rather do Chriss instead of Warren honestly, but thats just me.

Warren would be good for the cavs, since he's so good at scoring without the ball and off of broken plays.

Agreed. I think he'd be a nice fit there. But from what I saw on azcentral Cavs prefer getting Chriss back.

They can have Warren or Chriss like yesterday. Neither player is crucial to our future at all.

Sunsfan4life wrote:Heard Cavs/Suns are at an impass over which pick will be given up not Josh Jackson.

Cavs want Chriss+Bled+Suns pick unprotected.
Suns want Bledsoe/Chriss/Miamis pick.

If I'm phoenix I'm holding firm with Bled/Chriss/Heat Pick until Cavs find another offer even close. Who offers them a player who is very good and also best friends with Lebron like we can? If Minnesota offers Wiggins that's the only way I see this tipping.

Giving up Chriss might actually help in the long run. It gives all the PF mins to Bender and avoids the staff investing in a guy who I don't think will ever be what they think he will be.

Where did you hear that?

I can see them not wanting warren as he's really got 1 year left on his deal. I think they'd want someone that they can have on the cheap for the next 2-3 years. Still don't get why you all would trade Chriss over Bender. The most important thing we can do is get rid of Bledsoe, he's a very good player and seems like a nice guy, but he doesn't fit into our timeline and his association with Lebron worries me. Lebron's only goal is to help himself, so if you're on his team then you're never going to surpass him. Probably why Kyrie wants out. My biggest fear is that Lebron ends up on the suns, I'd rather miss the playoffs for the next ten years than have to root for that guy.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

carey wrote:

SDC wrote:phoenix not gonna tank next season with kyrie, yes?

Sure they will. He's not *that* much better than Bledsoe. May win us an extra handful of games. I'd be surprised if we pick out of the top 5 if we lose Bledsoe plus one of Warren/Chriss/Bender.

When Bledsoe's knees shatter like glass next season and he's never the same for the rest of his career, we can dig this comment back up. Really the trade of (Bledsoe + JJ + pick) for Kyrie is an absolute steal for us and we should take it immediately. If you think about it, Bledsoe's value is about to plummet. He'll soon be essentially worthless as an asset IMO. And you wouldn't want him on your team anyway if you already had Irving. So it's really just (JJ + pick) for Kyrie. That is more than fair. I would bet my life savings that Kyrie Irving will make more all-star and all-NBA teams and have more playoff successes for the rest of his career than Josh Jackson will.

Is it a steal when no one else is offering anything close to that? I know you don't really like Jackson or Bledsoe but absolute steal is a big stretch at best.

MightyMoog wrote:I can see them not wanting warren as he's really got 1 year left on his deal. I think they'd want someone that they can have on the cheap for the next 2-3 years. Still don't get why you all would trade Chriss over Bender. The most important thing we can do is get rid of Bledsoe, he's a very good player and seems like a nice guy, but he doesn't fit into our timeline and his association with Lebron worries me. Lebron's only goal is to help himself, so if you're on his team then you're never going to surpass him. Probably why Kyrie wants out. My biggest fear is that Lebron ends up on the suns, I'd rather miss the playoffs for the next ten years than have to root for that guy.

No disrespect but these type of takes is why Suns fans are laughed at, and painting yourself into a corner doesn't help the Suns win a title.