Phx-Suns.Net

This is pretty simple guys. You start Doncic/Booker/Jackson and Josh guards PGs most nights.

If we don't get Bamba or Ayton, this is a big fail.

O_Gardino wrote:

Cap wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

JCSunsfan wrote:

INFORMER wrote:
I don't get it. Ayton doens't have point guard skills and I really don't see why someone would expect him to develop them.

I think that he is saying that Ayton is a big guy who because of his athleticism has small guy abilities too. Giannis was a small athletic guy, but because of his growth became a big guy with small guy skills. So they sort of meet in the middle but come at it from different directions. To me. Giannis is a wing. Ayton is a big. Both are ultra athletic and versatile for their position which is why they both have huge role in the present NBA.

What small guy abilities does Ayton have?

He definitely switches and moves his feet defending the perimeter better that most guys his height, but on offense he is a pure 5 in the most traditional form we've seen in a while.

Shooting isn’t considered a small guy ability these days? It used to be.

He's an OK catch and shoot guy, but he isn't shooting off the dribble or off movement. He shoots like a big guy.

Basically. He has the same kind of range that Olajuwon, Ewing, and Robinson had. Essentially, he's a throwback to those guys, which isn't a bad thing.

The Bobster wrote:Yeah, you play Doncic and Jackson at forward together every night and you're going to get killed on the boards all season long. Having Chriss, Bender and Warren along with them isn't going to help either.

And improving the defense isn't going to be easy with that lack of size.

Which shows that if you are drafting for need, Ayton is the obvious choice. However, they say you're not supposed to draft for need but instead best player available. But then again if it's close, you draft for need. Ayton is the pick.

INFORMER wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

Cap wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

JCSunsfan wrote:
I think that he is saying that Ayton is a big guy who because of his athleticism has small guy abilities too. Giannis was a small athletic guy, but because of his growth became a big guy with small guy skills. So they sort of meet in the middle but come at it from different directions. To me. Giannis is a wing. Ayton is a big. Both are ultra athletic and versatile for their position which is why they both have huge role in the present NBA.

What small guy abilities does Ayton have?

He definitely switches and moves his feet defending the perimeter better that most guys his height, but on offense he is a pure 5 in the most traditional form we've seen in a while.

Shooting isn’t considered a small guy ability these days? It used to be.

He's an OK catch and shoot guy, but he isn't shooting off the dribble or off movement. He shoots like a big guy.

Basically. He has the same kind of range that Olajuwon, Ewing, and Robinson had. Essentially, he's a throwback to those guys, which isn't a bad thing.

I disagree. Ayton's range is greater than all three of those players. If you want to compare him to a big as far as shooting, then KAT is the guy.

Superbone wrote:

The Bobster wrote:Yeah, you play Doncic and Jackson at forward together every night and you're going to get killed on the boards all season long. Having Chriss, Bender and Warren along with them isn't going to help either.

And improving the defense isn't going to be easy with that lack of size.

Which shows that if you are drafting for need, Ayton is the obvious choice. However, they say you're not supposed to draft for need but instead best player available. But then again if it's close, you draft for need. Ayton is the pick.

Bingo.

In2ition wrote:

jonh wrote:

Superbone wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

The Bobster wrote:The main concern with Doncic is still his lack of elite athleticism and some concerns over whether he will be able to defend and get around NBA guards. Probably not as big a concern if he plays SF, but if he's limited mostly to small forward that probably would diminish his value some.

I don't see any way you can play him at PG alongside Booker since neither of them would have the defensive ability to bother anybody.

I wouldn't hesitate to play him at 3, but let him initiate the offense.

Yeah, he's not playing PG but he could play a lot like Ben Simmons who he himself says he patterns his game after.

I’m confused-if you don’t play him at point guard, what would be your starting lineup with Doncic?

I would pick bpa at 16 and 31 (Smith or Williams & Huerter or DeVincio). Then make a nice package trade for future assets to LAC for Beverly and Jordan while keeping cap space. Lastly make a run at George.

Beverly, Booker, Doncic, George, Jordan.

Or

Knight, Booker, Jackson, Doncic, FA

Or

Doncic, Booker, Jackson, Warren, FA

Or any combination...it's fluid right now.

I think this might be what ends up making me want to draft Ayton--as much as there is a need at point guard, Doncic doesnt really scratch that itch. Not only that, but this creates the exact logjam Ive been criticizing McD about creating at the PG spot with Hydra, and the PF spot with Chriss and Bender.

Its true its best to draft the best player available, but I think the skill/upside of Ayton and Doncic are comparable, and so then I tend to fall back on fit, and I think Ayton fits better.

Superbone wrote: I disagree. Ayton's range is greater than all three of those players.

Not really. He's basically a midrange shooter. He stepped out and hit some 3s occasionally (12 total at 34%), but they were mainly right at the college line, and his form really isn't conducive to hitting from NBA range.

jonh wrote: I think Ayton fits better.

I get we have don't have a starting center, but we also don't have anyone that can run a freakin' offense. I don't think we have a huge need for a non-defensive, scoring center. I do think this team could be transformed but getting a player that can be the team's engine.

INFORMER wrote:

Superbone wrote: I disagree. Ayton's range is greater than all three of those players.

Not really. He's basically a midrange shooter. He stepped out and hit some 3s occasionally (12 total at 34%), but they were mainly right at the college line, and his form really isn't conducive to hitting from NBA range.

Yes, really. We'll have to agree to disagree.

INFORMER wrote:

jonh wrote: I think Ayton fits better.

I get we have don't have a starting center, but we also don't have anyone that can run a freakin' offense. I don't think we have a huge need for a non-defensive, scoring center. I do think this team could be transformed but getting a player that can be the team's engine.

Pretty spot on. Doncic and pursuing Capela or Jordan could really do wonders.

I doubt there is anything to this KAT talk, but if you're going to make him available, the #1 pick would be where you'd have to start.

The good thing about having KAT over picking Ayton is that he's a proven commodity, which goes a long way with free agents. And when your window of real free agency is very short, that's something to consider, especially if it's possible to snag a significant FA you target. It's very possible that Ayton turns out better than KAT, as he has better feet and is a better athlete. Ayton could end up a much better defender in time.

I am convinced that the Suns need to try to move back up in the draft for a pg like Young or distributor like Doncic, who will help establish a sharing the ball type of mindset where players run the floor and are actively trying to get open as they know the team will find them. Knight is mot that kind of pg. Booker is best as a primary scorer and secondary creator.

I suppose you could also use the 16th pick in another trade for a young win now vet too, as that would also help entice a FA over a rookie.

Vladimir_Taltos wrote:If we don't get Bamba or Ayton, this is a big fail.

Why just those two? (I'd take either one, by the way)

I'm still not convinced that Jontay Porter isn't the best center in the draft.

[youtube][/youtube]

And here's a homer article on Jontay that mentions how good his defense is.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/ ... 2522a.html

Porter’s build (6-11, 240) and agility allows him to defend frontcourt players in all shapes and sizes. It’s probably no coincidence that the league’s two players of the year, Georgia’s Yante Maten (the media’s choice) and Tennessee’s Grant Williams (the coaches’ choice) had unusually unproductive games in the regular season with Porter’s long limbs draped all over them.

The advanced metrics measure Porter’s season as elite among his peers, too: Heading into the NCAA Tournament, Porter ranks No. 2 in the SEC in defensive rating (93.7) and No. 6 in defensive win shares (1.8).

I think if you want to build a team to compete against GS & Hou you draft Doncic and Porter. I don't think we will but it's what I would do.

carey wrote:I think if you want to build a team to compete against GS & Hou you draft Doncic and Porter. I don't think we will but it's what I would do.

That sounds fantastic to me. Although my dream would be drafting Doncic and moving up to grab Carter.

carey wrote:I think if you want to build a team to compete against GS & Hou you draft Doncic and Porter. I don't think we will but it's what I would do.

I don't think we need to put together team to compete against GS & Houston, but I do think we need to put a team together that spreads teams out, passes well, is versatile, and smart. I think those are the ingredients to an NBA champion. And I think Doncic and Porter accomplish that.

Superbone wrote:I know these have been posted (start at 0:31 after the ad) but I just watched a bunch and I see the potential for an even larger Giannis-type player in Ayton. Sure, he probably won't become that skilled but who knows depending on his work ethic. I really don't see how we can pass up this guy at his size.

[youtube][/youtube]

Highlight videos make things so much easier.

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

jonh wrote: I think Ayton fits better.

I get we have don't have a starting center, but we also don't have anyone that can run a freakin' offense. I don't think we have a huge need for a non-defensive, scoring center. I do think this team could be transformed but getting a player that can be the team's engine.

Pretty spot on. Doncic and pursuing Capela or Jordan could really do wonders.

Why do people think we can get Capella? He is a RFA. We would have to do a HUGE over pay to get him and then its not likely. This makes no sense.