Phx-Suns.Net

“The Dems (belatedly) start to decide that they are not okay with genocide.”

But keep in mind the stated goal of the leaders of the Palestinians IS the genocide of Israel and they vow to never ever stop trying to wipe Israel off the map no matter what. The Palestinians are ok with being led by terrorists. The Palestinians are ok with wiping Israel off the map if only they could. The Palestinians are ok with Hamas using them as human shields in their rocket attacks on Israel. The Palestinians are ok with Hamas taking Israeli hostages. Palestinian supporters seem to be unable to acknowledge this and make that part of the equation.

I am not sure I am cool with how Israel has conducted their retaliation. Are they targeting civilians? The misinformation machine is in high gear of course on both sides. Separating Hamas from Palestinian civilians is next to impossible and to be honest I am not sure Israel cares at this point.

A cease fire would mean the end to Israeli’s hostilities in Gaza, which means their goal of taking out Hamas would end with Hamas intact and regrouping and a whole new generation of Palestinians hating Israel even more. The circle of violence would only gain strength and the hate level would be even higher if that is even possible. I think at this point Israel is pretty committed to finishing what they started and they don’t really care what anyone else thinks.

This is a nightmare for Biden. Young people in the US side with the Palestinians and that is a big part of Biden’s base. Those people were cheering when Hamas massacred 1400 Israeli’s. Biden’s support for Israel means their support for Trump in the next election.

Israel bombs the last standing university in Gaza. I guess there must have been a bad guy in there??

The part that makes me really sick is that it's basically the US doing it. We are supplying them with weapons and if it wasn't for our "permission" they would not be able to do it.

Right. We can still be a good ally to them while not handing them the weapons and money to commit atrocities.

Barack REFUSES to pick a side: Obama condemns 'horrific' actions of Hamas but says 'what's happening to Palestinians is unbearable'
Former President Obama said 'nobody's hands are clean' amid the conflict between Israel and the Palestinian militant group Hamas
Obama condemned Hamas expressing sympathy for innocent civilians in Gaza
Obama also made the remarks on the Pod Save America podcast about the conflict in the Middle East describing it as being a 'moral reckoning for all of us'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rable.html

https://x.com/PodSaveAmerica/status/172 ... 20324?s=20

I played that Jewish/Iranian wedding last night. I will admit I was a little worried there might be a conflict between the guests. There wasn’t. It was a beautiful wedding. There was nothing in that room but love.

Nodack wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:42 am

Barack REFUSES to pick a side: Obama condemns 'horrific' actions of Hamas but says 'what's happening to Palestinians is unbearable'
Former President Obama said 'nobody's hands are clean' amid the conflict between Israel and the Palestinian militant group Hamas
Obama condemned Hamas expressing sympathy for innocent civilians in Gaza
Obama also made the remarks on the Pod Save America podcast about the conflict in the Middle East describing it as being a 'moral reckoning for all of us'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rable.html

https://x.com/PodSaveAmerica/status/172 ... 20324?s=20

Sounds like a smart man. I agree with him

How Israel shot down a ballistic missile in space for the first time

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ho ... r-AA1jonof

Israel this week used its Arrow missile-defence system to shoot down a ballistic missile outside of Earth’s atmosphere, in what is believed to be the first combat ever to take place in space.

The ballistic missile, which was fired on Monday, is said to have been a Qader missile – an improved version of the Iranian-designed Shahab 3. At more than 50 feet long, the Qader has a high-explosive warhead and has a range that puts all of Israel in striking distance of the Houthis, which have now declared war on Israel and are a key part of the Iran-backed alliance set against the country.

The ballistic missile was launched from Yemen by the Iran-backed Houthis, and flew almost 1,000 miles over the Arabian peninsula on the way to its target, the Israeli port city of Eilat.

Since the October 7 attacks by Hamas on Israel and the subsequent bombardment of Gaza, the Houthis have launched drones, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles at Israel on four occasions.

The Houthis have vowed there would be more such attacks “to help the Palestinians to victory

Barack REFUSES to pick a side: ...

What do you think this is, the Middle East in-season tournament?

I think Obama is one of the most popular Democrat Presidents ever. He’s half black, half white. He grew up with a family of Christians and Muslims. His opinion on this carries weight. He says they are both to blame and won’t pick a side. I am not sure what this being a moral reckoning for all of us means.

Does he need to pick a side? It’s not always black and white, sometimes grey is the right answer.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 05, 2023 8:45 pm

Does he need to pick a side? It’s not always black and white, sometimes grey is the right answer.

That’s been the lesson in the recent For All Mankind’s that I’ve been watching.

Sometimes both sides are wrong/evil.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 05, 2023 8:45 pm

Does he need to pick a side? It’s not always black and white, sometimes grey is the right answer.

That he didn’t pick a side is the point. The world is divided. The US is divided. This site is divided. Obama places blame on everyone including all of us. This conflict is an endless loop that seems like it will go on for eternity. After the last Hamas attack Israel has decided that it will break the endless loop one way or another.

I can see their point. I can see the Palestinians point. Israel was established on lands that were Palestinian lands. The Palestinians weren’t happy. The UN established the state of Israel on those lands after millions of Jews were slaughtered in WWII. Jews flocked to the new state of Israel and finally had their own place to settle without being persecuted by others. The Arab world wasn’t happy that Israel was established there and that conflict has been going on for 70+ years now. Was the UN wrong to establish Israel there? Was it the Jewish people’s fault for moving there at the invite of the UN? Was it the Palestinians fault for being angry about it?

I have been witnessing this conflict my entire lifetime. I have seen US President after President promise to bring peace there and they all failed. I have seen multiple attacks from the Arab world and then reprisals over and over from Israel throughout the years. Israel is surrounded by countries and people that want to see them all dead. Those people will never stop until Israel is wiped off the map. Israel has vowed to not be wiped off the map.

What do you guys think should be done if anything? How does this conflict get resolved? The Arab world won’t stop attacking Israel until is doesn’t exist. Israel will never stop defending itself and will respond to whatever attack on them X’s 10. Any attempts at a peace settlement will be shot down by the Arab world one way or another.

It was a beautiful peaceful sunny day in Israel and then Hamas upped the ante by launching a sneak attack slaughtering 1400 Israeli’s, mostly women and children in cold blood in the most brutal ways they could think of hoping to instigate a response. Israel upped the ante responding to that attack by leveling Gaza. The Arab world in countries surrounding Israel are now upping the ante by attacking Israel and the US. The US is upping the ante sending in two carrier groups to the area. China has upped the ante by sending warships to the area too. The whole world is escalating this conflict now.

After a lifetime of witnessing this conflict I have zero optimism of any resolution other than lots of death on all sides. Whose fault is it? I don’t think it matters anymore. This will play out the way it plays out and lots of people will die fighting for whatever it is we think we are fighting for or against.

That I agree with…I don’t think we are resolving this peacefully. It’s going to be brutal, but I don’t have to just accept it. I think what Hamas did was downright evil. I think what Israel is doing is also terrible(though admittedly less terrible, if that counts for something). I don’t support what either are doing and I don’t feel the need to. I’m on the side of the Israeli civilians and Palestinian civilians who have and will continue to get caught in the crossfire.

I think Israel is done with this endless cycle of attacks and has decided to resolve it by force. Nobody else is going to do anything about it. If I lived there and had to endure 70+ years of endless attacks and just witnessed the most brutal one ever outside of the Holocaust, I would be pretty upset and want to do something about it too. 70+ years of tit for tat violence not counting the Holocaust and everything before has resolved nothing. The Palestinians aren’t going to stop Hamas’s attacks. They aren’t even going to condemn them. Palestinians and other Arabs around the world including the US celebrated the Hamas massacre. Students in US colleges who aren’t even Arab or Jewish celebrated the massacre. That’s F’ed up.

I place most of the blame on the Arab world. They could resolve this today if they wanted to. They don’t want to as long as Israel exists. There is nothing Israel can do to get the Arab world to accept Israel occupying that land. Israel has to either accept being attacked for the rest of eternity and not do anything about it or use their military to do something about it and be labeled evil or move to Texas.

What can the Palestinians do about it? They can continue to be led by a terrorist group who doesn’t want peace and who will continue to use Palestinians as human shields and keep launching attacks on Israel with their blessings. Or, they could renounce Hamas and run their own state without attacking Israel. They could ask the UN to moderate a cease fire and peace negotiations. They could announce that they would accept living side by side with Israel without trying to kill them. They won’t.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:02 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 05, 2023 8:45 pm

Does he need to pick a side? It’s not always black and white, sometimes grey is the right answer.

That’s been the lesson in the recent For All Mankind’s that I’ve been watching.

Great show! How are you liking it?

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:13 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:02 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 05, 2023 8:45 pm

Does he need to pick a side? It’s not always black and white, sometimes grey is the right answer.

That’s been the lesson in the recent For All Mankind’s that I’ve been watching.

Great show! How are you liking it?

Really into it. Watch a show or two every night. I think I'm half way into Season 3. Season 4 starts on the 11th, I believe.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:40 am

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:13 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:02 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 05, 2023 8:45 pm

Does he need to pick a side? It’s not always black and white, sometimes grey is the right answer.

That’s been the lesson in the recent For All Mankind’s that I’ve been watching.

Great show! How are you liking it?

Really into it. Watch a show or two every night. I think I'm half way into Season 3. Season 4 starts on the 11th, I believe.

Gordo was my favorite. That hit hard.

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:46 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:40 am

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 06, 2023 11:13 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:02 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 05, 2023 8:45 pm

Does he need to pick a side? It’s not always black and white, sometimes grey is the right answer.

That’s been the lesson in the recent For All Mankind’s that I’ve been watching.

Great show! How are you liking it?

Really into it. Watch a show or two every night. I think I'm half way into Season 3. Season 4 starts on the 11th, I believe.

Gordo was my favorite. That hit hard.

Yep. Let's just say his sons, not so much. Both creeps in their own right.