Suns 2014: NBA Draft

[Superbone]

Len and Archie have lost that new rookie smell.. Time to move on.

LOL!

[Sunsfan4life]

Len is a little different. I liked him for most of the college season. I saw some games that impressed me and some games that were quite unimpressive. Ultimately, I think the poor guard play on Maryland kind of held him back. So going into the draft process, I thought he was a solid prospect. But then I studied him a little more and became more and more impressed. I bumped him up to the guy I would draft number one. Then the news came out about his ankle injury and that was a complete deal-breaker for me. Unrelated to that development, my opinion of Kelly Olynyk grew exponentially, and he soon became my second favorite prospect, eclipsed by only Victor Oladipo, and followed by C.J. McCollum and Rudy Gobert.

I didn't like Kelly Olynak then and I'm not that impressed with his first year. He was decent in stretches for a very bad team and I think he can hang in the league, but I wouldn't draft him in the top 20 of this years class and don't ever see him as a starter for a good team.

Also, just because people don't like last years class don't mean they are "echoing media hacks". I'm sure Shabazz watched this years rookie class, took a look at the stats as well, and came to the conclusions that this class was absolutely miserable in year 1 and only a few players look like they have a high ceiling ...It's his opinion. It's my opinion...so the whole "your letting these media hacks influence you" debate is garbage. I'm letting my eyes do it.

[TOO]

2013 still has a lot of quality potential, I dont think there were any superstars, but there is solid quality there.

[INFORMER]

Len and Archie have lost that new rookie smell.. Time to move on.

LOL!

I made it perfectly clear on draft night that I wasn't a fan of drafting Len or Goodwin. 'bazz, I'm assuming, was referring to how I fel about them during the college season. But don't let accuracy get in the way of your fun.

[TOO]

Len and Archie have lost that new rookie smell.. Time to move on.

LOL!

I made it perfectly clear on draft night that I wasn't a fan of drafting Len or Goodwin. 'bazz, I'm assuming, was referring to how I fel about them during the college season. But don't let accuracy get in the way of your fun.

Fun is imperative. As you know, with your claim of McD's foot fetish and 29 pointer moniker.

[INFORMER]

I didn't like Kelly Olynak then and I'm not that impressed with his first year. He was decent in stretches for a very bad team and I think he can hang in the league, but I wouldn't draft him in the top 20 of this years class and don't ever see him as a starter for a good team.

The "he did it but on a bad team" argument is a bit lazy, but whatever. In just his rookie season, he showed above average passing ability, offensive versatility and rebounding ability. He had several impressive outings. But none of that counts I guess. We'll just have to let time by the judge.

Len, on the other hand, has a game where he gets 9 points and 6 rebounds and we're lauding his potential. I think that's a bit inconsistent.

And saying you wouldn't draft Olynyk in the top 20 of this year's draft isn't saying much. We agree that this is a uniquely superior draft, and he was drafted 13 in what is regarded as a poor draft. So not much of a point is being made there.

[INFORMER]

Also, just because people don't like last years class don't mean they are "echoing media hacks". I'm sure Shabazz watched this years rookie class, took a look at the stats as well, and came to the conclusions that this class was absolutely miserable in year 1 and only a few players look like they have a high ceiling ...It's his opinion. It's my opinion...so the whole "your letting these media hacks influence you" debate is garbage. I'm letting my eyes do it.

I wasn't implying that 'bazz wasn't reaching the opinion on his own. I was saying he was arriving at the same opinion as many in the media who have superficial knowledge of the prospects from that draft.

[Sunsfan4life]

Your right we do overratte suns players....except do not mention me in the "we" when it comes to len. I was disappointed with Alex Len's rookie year. I thought he was a project going in and was not going to impact us much this yr and he certainly could still turn out to be a good-very good player, but The #1 concern was his ankles and that wasn't exactly put to rest by a healthy 82 game campaign.

I was much more happier from What I saw from Goodwin. He was drafted 29 and I would not be surprised if he was 1 of the better players in last yrs draft. I thought he definitely improved from college to his 1st yr and Hornecek seemed very encouraged by his work ethic.

[INFORMER]

I thought he definitely improved from college to his 1st yr and Hornecek seemed very encouraged by his work ethic.

I can support that.

[EDC]

What is wrong with overrating your rookies? We are fans not analysts. Shouldn't you be hoping for the best from them instead of making sure everyone knows that "we" didn't want them in the first place? It isn't like we are deciding whether or not to draft them this year. We have them good or bad for awhile.

So much negativity. You would think it was a year ago.

[Superbone]

I'm with you, EDC. So much downplaying in the name of objectivity. Forget it! We're fans.

I'm excited to see what Len can become. It's going to take some time though. Robin Lopez took about 5 years it seems before he became consistent with the Blazers. You can't teach height!

I still remember Len's putback three point play last year in Boston to win the game.

I'd love to see him dominate in summer league play this year. Good stuff coming up. The draft is a week away and then summer league around the corner.

[Sunsfan4life]

So the rumor being floated by Chad Ford is if the Sixers go Exum 3 they will look to trade MCW for a pick.

Just hypothetical, but would you trade 14 for him?

[EDC]

This summer should be exciting. I don't keep up with college ball but hopefully we end up with at least 2 guys with good potential. It feels like it has been a long time since we have had that many young guys on the team. Summer league should be really interesting.

It's just nice to have a team with lots of possibilities.

[Superbone]

So the rumor being floated by Chad Ford is if the Sixers go Exum 3 they will look to trade MCW for a pick.

Just hypothetical, but would you trade 14 for him?

Yeah, we need more point guards.

[SwingMan]

Len is a little different. I liked him for most of the college season. I saw some games that impressed me and some games that were quite unimpressive. Ultimately, I think the poor guard play on Maryland kind of held him back. So going into the draft process, I thought he was a solid prospect. But then I studied him a little more and became more and more impressed. I bumped him up to the guy I would draft number one. Then the news came out about his ankle injury and that was a complete deal-breaker for me. Unrelated to that development, my opinion of Kelly Olynyk grew exponentially, and he soon became my second favorite prospect, eclipsed by only Victor Oladipo, and followed by C.J. McCollum and Rudy Gobert.

I thought Ryan draft him at 5 was reckless. And then when I watch the alleged "highlights" of Len's brief shining moments this past season, they make me cringe. So not only do I have lingering questions about his durability and longevity, I'm beginning to think he wasn't as good as even I thought pre-injury. And that he is this raw after two years of college gives me pause as well.

1.) No SL or training camp for Len last year, thus, he had to get in shape and learn on the fly with inconsistent minutes.

2.) No ankle problems whatsoever since he came back about mid-season.

As you may remember, I was about as down as I could be on Len because of the ankle issues (and because I thought he'd amount to nothing more than Kosta Koufos when all was said & done), but, inconsistent as the run may have been for him this past season, he showed me some really good flashes. Believe it or not, the kid's got some decent court IQ on both ends and can run the floor well for his size. The skills and instincts are there - he just needs time.

With committing a full off-season to staying in Phoenix, summer league and a full training camp, I expect Len to improve by leaps and bounds - even going so far as to eventually supplant Plumlee in the starting 5, IMO.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

The usual "Maybe, the more negative I speak, the more knowledgeable I look" syndrome is taking over Inf.

Are you channeling to our good old Wormwood friend as the resident pessimist?

So much downplaying in the name of objectivity. Forget it! We're fans.

THIS.

'Bone, Can I use it as my new signature?

[carey]

Info, you've kinda been a bit of a curmudgeon lately, but you still have reasonable, well thought out takes that I find....informative. Wish you'd take the 'tude down a notch though.

[INFORMER]

What is wrong with overrating your rookies? We are fans not analysts.

Sometimes I like to have discussions based on reality and accurate, balanced analysis. I'm sorry that bothers you.

Furthermore, I wasn't saying "stop overrating" our rookies. I was just asking for consistency. Don't crap on other rookies on other teams who have contributed minimally, but then laud our rookies as being full of potential. I don't think that's fair, smart, accurate or balanced. But that's just my opinion. I didn't think consistency was too much to ask for, but, at least according to you, it is.

Shouldn't you be hoping for the best from them instead of making sure everyone knows that "we" didn't want them in the first place?

I guess I used "we" inappropriately somewhere and this is your shot at me. In any event, it's confusing me because I made it very clear that this is my opinion of Alex Len and Archie Goodwin. I'm not asking anyone else to feel the same.

And let's be fair, if that's okay with you. You're asking for me to hope for the best like I said I hope they fail; I didn't. What I hope for and my evaluation of situation or individual are two separate things. I might think it will rain tomorrow, but that doesn't mean I'm hoping for it. I don't think it's that hard to see the distinction between those concepts.

As to your point about me "making sure everyone knows," I think that's a misrepresentation of what's happening here. I didn't start a freaking thread to remind everyone how I felt about Alex Len and Archie Goodwin being drafted by the Suns last year. It came up in this discussion, and my comments have been in response to what others have said to me about those two players. I didn't go out of my way to bring this up. It was on-topic.

So much negativity.

Wash, rinse, repeat. This same post is made toward me every offseason. I don't know what to tell you. I'm sorry I don't love or approve of everything the Suns do. I'm sorry I don't automatically think what they do is right. I reserve my own judgment and evaluate each occurrence based on what I believe and my understanding. I don't set out to be negative; I just have opinions and reactions. Sometimes they're positive, sometimes they're negative. But they'll always be true to what I personally think. I don't see any point to be positive just to be positive, or negative just to be negative.

[INFORMER]

The usual "Maybe, the more negative I speak, the more knowledgeable I look" syndrome is taking over Inf.

Ouch. I'm not trying to act like a know-it-all. I'm just stating my opinion. For what it's worth, I don't see any correlation between negativity and being knowledgeable. So this syndrome your slamming me with doesn't really resonate with me. I'm sorry.

[INFORMER]

Wish you'd take the 'tude down a notch though.

I'm reading this after I made the reply to EDC, so if that reply constitutes more of the same " 'tude" you're referring to, I apologize.

Are you saying that you are bother by my attitude toward other posters? I was disagreeing with 'bazz and RW, but I thought the discussions were civil. I certainly didn't have a problem with how they were dealing with me.

Or are you referring to my attitude toward the Suns, like their philosophy about the draft? That attitude has been negative. But if that's what's bothering you, I'm not sure I can change. I value being able to post what I think and how I feel.

In any event, you, Aztec, and EDC, posters I respect have spoken out against my recent postings, so maybe that's a sign that the problem is with me and maybe this isn't the best place for me. And I don't mean that in a disparaging way to any poster or this site (thank you Mori once again for bringing this together). It's not my goal to affect people in this way, so maybe I'll just read from now on, and only post sparingly.