Phx-Suns.Net

djy2j wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:47 am

Hell yeah! Clippers pretty much dog walked from the tip. They didn't look focused at all. Ty Lue should have just fed Marcus Morris all game since he always plays lights out.

CamJ had really nice stretches at the beginning and end. The middle part, not so much. His defense has been a bit underwhelming.

My only Ayton complaint so far is that we heard all about how he worked on different offensive moves all offseason. Heard it from reports, heard it straight from him. But where are they? So far it's either take a quick jump shot or hesitate do some sort of juke then jump shot. It's the exact same limited arsenal he had last year.

You just shined the Jeremy bat signal.

Ayton has consistently been our second-best player behind the red hot Booker so far this season. I don't know how many new moves he has, but he has been scoring pretty consistently and mostly playing good defense, too. He isn't turning into a ferocious Amare, but that just isn't who he is. I'm pretty content with his play overall.

A little thing I don't like is how Ayton will take one 3-pointer early in each game now. His form isn't horrible, but he kind of jumps forward and stiff-arms the shot a bit. I think he made one of them, but mostly the shots don't look good. I don't think I need him to ever be a 3-point shooter and I wish he just wouldn't even attempt those.

Another random thing I noticed is that sometimes Coach Monty will bring back in Ayton with a mostly bench unit. And when that lineup is on the floor, it seems like Ayton is just a ghost out there. Payne doesn't seem to pass him the ball very much, and the others don't look for him inside, either. Ayton jockeys for position or rolls off a screen and the ball never comes to him. Then after a few repetitions of this, he starts to disengage. It's a bad situation. I feel like either the team should work with the bench guards to look for Ayton more, or they shouldn't put him out there with that group.

Payne does need to learn to find Ayton. Payne isn’t a good passer to rolling bigs.

As for Ayton and his 3 point shooting, I’d like him to either shoot them or start dribbling. He needs to add something. He’s a good player without it, but he just doesn’t pressure the defense enough shooting mid range jumpers and rolling to the rim. If he can hit that top of the arc 3 at a 35% clip with a decent volume, he’ll open up driving lanes for our guards.

I’m frustrated with Ayton’s offensive repertoire too, but I think our offense is rarely set up for him to hold the ball in the low post with time to make plays. He’s often a dump off release valve in the paint surrounded by defenders so he has to force something quick. I watched the Blazers Lakers masterpiece last night and wish we would give Ayton 3-4 real post up opportunities per game like Nurkic gets, either so he improves or so we can criticize him proper. I have seen maybe one halfway rusher right hook this year which has been a bread and butter for him in the past.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:30 pm

Clippers sure do a lot of pushing on offense.

This is an NBA problem; I wish they would make it a "Point of Education." Book goes through stretches where he does it a lot. James Harden does it a ton. I hate it. It's a foul.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:47 pm

Wall getting superstar calls tonight

For real! I'm not complain about officiating guy, but even I when I was watching the game thought the calls he was getting was vintage Dwayne Wade whistle.

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:12 pm

This is a bad Ayton game

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:13 pm

Ya, energy level is low…foul trouble didn’t allow him to get in rhythm…just been off all game

Yep.

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:26 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:17 pm

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:10 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:07 pm

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:07 pm

I’ll get banned for this but Marcus Morris would be pretty good on this team.

Ya Morris the player would be the perfect 4 for us.

Guess we’re both getting banned

Harrison Barnes is a little Marcus Morris-ey, without the whole being a jerk thing. He’s still my favorite target and I still think Crowder makes sense for the Kings…They could use some toughness and Keegan Murray is gonna take Barnes minutes anyways.

Agreed but he’s having a pretty rough start

Although he might’ve checked out knowing it’s a matter of time before Murray takes his minutes.

His poor start is actually good news for the Suns. Barnes will have to be playing poorly for the Kings to be willing to move him to us.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:07 pm

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:07 pm

I’ll get banned for this but Marcus Morris would be pretty good on this team.

Ya Morris the player would be the perfect 4 for us.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:27 pm

Kawhi Leonard is finished as an elite player in the league.

This is not going to age well.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 6:01 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:27 pm

Kawhi Leonard is finished as an elite player in the league.

This is not going to age well.

Conveniently left out the part about him not being able to do it every night in the playoffs. But yeah, we'll see...

Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:47 pm

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:26 pm

Would the clippers be interested in crowder? Crowder and Craig for Morris would work.

What about Terrence Mann?

He looks like the odd man out in their backcourt rotation, while Morris is the nominal 5 when they runt that all wings lineup.

I don't think either team would be inclined to help the other. The Clippers aren't going to trade Marcus Morris. And the Suns would be moronic to trade Crowder to the Clippers; the Clippers already have the ingredients to beat the Suns, and Crowder is a perfect fit with how they want to play.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:53 am

Another random thing I noticed is that sometimes Coach Monty will bring back in Ayton with a mostly bench unit. And when that lineup is on the floor, it seems like Ayton is just a ghost out there. Payne doesn't seem to pass him the ball very much, and the others don't look for him inside, either. Ayton jockeys for position or rolls off a screen and the ball never comes to him. Then after a few repetitions of this, he starts to disengage. It's a bad situation. I feel like either the team should work with the bench guards to look for Ayton more, or they shouldn't put him out there with that group.

Nailed it Mori. It was infuriating to watch that unit have Torrey Craig go one on one rather than looking for Ayton.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:05 am

Payne does need to learn to find Ayton. Payne isn’t a good passer to rolling bigs.

Then just feed him in the post.

And really, I've never been a fan of trying to bounce pass to Ayton on the pick and roll; he doesn't have the hands for that, but that is what CP3 likes to do so we keep trying to force a square peg in a round hole. If the pass is above the waist or a lob, Ayton can finish.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 6:14 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:05 am

Payne does need to learn to find Ayton. Payne isn’t a good passer to rolling bigs.

Then just feed him in the post.

And really, I've never been a fan of trying to bounce pass to Ayton on the pick and roll; he doesn't have the hands for that, but that is what CP3 likes to do so we keep trying to force a square peg in a round hole. If the pass is above the waist or a lob, Ayton can finish.

Payne is awful at post entry passes.

This is why Ayton learning how to dribble would be so helpful…then he’s not reliant on everyone else to get him the ball in position.

Or we could find a competent backup guard who can throw a basic entry pass.

You’re right, I mean we’re only paying Ayton the max, he shouldn’t need to learn how to do anything on his own. His teammates need to be better at catering to him.

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:49 am

You’re right, I mean we’re only paying Ayton the max, he shouldn’t need to learn how to do anything on his own. His teammates need to be better at catering to him.

Payne is a point guard though. This is a simple skill you'd expect of a point guard. Asking a center to start making dribble moves far outside of the paint this far in his career vs a lifelong PG being asked to perform a skill he should have learned early on are two different things. Payne not only needs to learn this skill when playing with Ayton but also other bigs. It's why he never did well with McGee and can't play well with Biyambo. He shouldn't only do well with a center that camps at the 3 point line and can make dribble move drives to the hoop. You might as well never play him with a center.

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:23 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:49 am

You’re right, I mean we’re only paying Ayton the max, he shouldn’t need to learn how to do anything on his own. His teammates need to be better at catering to him.

Payne is a point guard though. This is a simple skill you'd expect of a point guard. Asking a center to start making dribble moves far outside of the paint this far in his career vs a lifelong PG being asked to perform a skill he should have learned early on are two different things. Payne not only needs to learn this skill when playing with Ayton but also other bigs. It's why he never did well with McGee and can't play well with Biyambo. He shouldn't only do well with a center that camps at the 3 point line and can make dribble move drives to the hoop. You might as well never play him with a center.

I don’t disagree, I was being over the top on purpose because while yes Payne should learn, we’re paying Ayton max money and we should expect more of him. Payne is about to be a vet min guy next year. I wish he’d be better, but Payne is also who he is at this point and is much easier to replace.