Phx-Suns.Net

Indy wrote:But they don't. The Morrii are on their rookie contracts. They make under 3 each.

That's splitting hairs a bit Indy. But technically yes, you're correct the contract doesn't kick in till next season. Does that really change anything about the point I was making though?

carey wrote:

Indy wrote:But they don't. The Morrii are on their rookie contracts. They make under 3 each.

That's splitting hairs a bit Indy. But technically yes, you're correct the contract doesn't kick in till next season. Does that really change anything about the point I was making though?

A bit.

Mori Chu wrote:The Bledsoe deal isn't a horrible contract, but he certainly isn't consistently living up to it so far this season. It's not so much that any individual contract we signed this past offseason is horrible; they're all pretty defensible. It's that we are now close to capped out and can't improve much from this point, and that's worrying given that we don't look improved from last year so far.

Yup, that's what I've been getting at all Summer. That was the feeling I was left with after signing the twins as well as a "why now?" feeling. Did anyone else feel like we bid against ourselves a year early? We could have easily let them get to the open market & see what fair market value would be. After a month of them trying to find a team with the space and willingness to sign both we probably could have got a much better discount. Really though we don't have the cap room or roster space to even improve now and that's what's frustrating. We are banking entirely on internal improvement. In one sense it's nice to bet on your own horse but it would also have been nice to have the option to bring in someone that would immediately make us better up front.

carey wrote:

Indy wrote:But they don't. The Morrii are on their rookie contracts. They make under 3 each.

That's splitting hairs a bit Indy. But technically yes, you're correct the contract doesn't kick in till next season. Does that really change anything about the point I was making though?

I would say it does.

If they keep improving, then next year when their contracts kick off, they could be fair value at that time and Price tag. Right now, they are good to great value for 3mill a piece.

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:

carey wrote:

Indy wrote:But they don't. The Morrii are on their rookie contracts. They make under 3 each.

That's splitting hairs a bit Indy. But technically yes, you're correct the contract doesn't kick in till next season. Does that really change anything about the point I was making though?

I would say it does.

If they keep improving, then next year when their contracts kick off, they could be fair value at that time and Price tag. Right now, they are good to great value for 3mill a piece.

Considering Kenneth Faried just got $12 mil per - or, Frye's $8 mil per for even better perspective - I think Markieff's $8 mil per is more than fair. Marcus has been off & on, but he's been busting his ass defensively on a consistent basis.

To be honest, I believe there's a few here who almost wish the Morris twins would royally fuck up just to prove they're "right" - who the hell was it who was aching to break out "the whiff" last week again?

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:I would say it does.

If they keep improving, then next year when their contracts kick off, they could be fair value at that time and Price tag. Right now, they are good to great value for 3mill a piece.

So you're banking on them improving & living up to their contact. I see them as career 6th-8th man types. Anything is possible though. My point still is our flexibility, our prized flexibility, is gone.

carey wrote:So you're banking on them improving & living up to their contact. I see them as career 6th-8th man types. Anything is possible though. My point still is our flexibility, our prized flexibility, is gone.

I blame that on the Bledsoe deal, not necessarily on the Morrii deals. I think I'd like this roster a lot if we traded Bledsoe and parts for a big of some kind or a stud swingman. Put Dragic back in command of the starting unit and let IT3 go nuts off the bench.

carey wrote:

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:I would say it does.

If they keep improving, then next year when their contracts kick off, they could be fair value at that time and Price tag. Right now, they are good to great value for 3mill a piece.

So you're banking on them improving & living up to their contact. I see them as career 6th-8th man types. Anything is possible though. My point still is our flexibility, our prized flexibility, is gone.

Not sure about how much more they can improve, I'm not particularly fond of the twins, neither see them as building blocks even as role players, but still, considering that the usual rate for quality starting big men in the league is above 10mill, I do not consider Markieff's deal particularly harmful, as long as he does not regress. My big issue with them is the Siamese-like contract that takes an aditional 4mill plus a roster spot for his brother. That is the problem -not Markieff by himself- even if Marcus also justifies his contract, the package thing is not practical.

I must say that except for the rookies already playing at a clear Star level, anytime a team grants an extension for a considerably superior figure, they are banking in a improvement that turns the deal into a bargain.

And our flexibility really took the big hit with Eric Bledsoe' FIVE years contract, for an amount that goes almost twice as big as Markieff, and still bigger than the Twins together. But even then, I hope for a consolidating move that includes him and brings back a superior bigman that sends the twins to the bench, where they could be above average reserves, instead of below average starters.

I too mind the Bledsoe contract much more than the Morri contract. I thought the original offer was fair and we compromised way too much. It's going to be a tough one to get value from even with the impending salary cap TV deal raise.

Superbone wrote:I too mind the Bledsoe contract much more than the Morri contract. I thought the original offer was fair and we compromised way too much. It's going to be a tough one to get value from even with the impending salary cap TV deal raise.

I still like both deals. Marcus is better than the player I thought we were getting. And I like Bledsoe as a sidekick to a superstar.

Thats the problem, though - he's not being paid like a side kick, and mentally, he already thinks of himself as a superstar. Mini Lebron and the Max Contract demands, and all...

Real GM featuring our very own Alex Len.

http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/23561 ... re-To-Wait

Beware of The Len!!!

Too early?

Look at his advanced stats on NBA.com. His defensive impact (allowed FG % differential) can be considered on the second tier league wide.

The top defensive centers like Hibbert, Noah or Chandler are giving you around -8% or better.

Robin Lopez and Larry Sanders, for instance, are barely at -5%. DeAndre Jordan -3%.

Len is -5.3%.

Couple that with his contested rebounding ratio of >50% and that means that you have more than a starter center when you combine it with his jumpshot around the FT line and his FT%, plus his agility for a guy his size.

Actually, that's what makes me believe he could make a good combo with Greg Monroe (and why I posted the trade idea on the Detroit game thread). On offense Monroe operates inside, Len at the line. On defense, Len is the rim protector. Both rebound. Kieff to the bench as 6th man.

In contrast, Plumlee shows numbers of backup, like say Kyle O'Quinn.

And in case anyone is wondering about our perimeter defenders, turns out Marcus Morris is making people score -6%.

Notorious defenders:

Tony Allen -8%
Antetokounmpo -3%
Batum and Iguodala around -1%
Perennially underrated James Johnson -4%
Thabo Sefolosha, done for any other purposes than defending, a brutal -9%

On the other hand, Tucker only makes people score less than their average when closer than 6ft and overall is +3%.

carey wrote:Yup, that's what I've been getting at all Summer. That was the feeling I was left with after signing the twins as well as a "why now?" feeling. Did anyone else feel like we bid against ourselves a year early? We could have easily let them get to the open market & see what fair market value would be. After a month of them trying to find a team with the space and willingness to sign both we probably could have got a much better discount. Really though we don't have the cap room or roster space to even improve now and that's what's frustrating. We are banking entirely on internal improvement. In one sense it's nice to bet on your own horse but it would also have been nice to have the option to bring in someone that would immediately make us better up front.

Their combined cap hold would have been one more million than the deals they actually got, so as long as you keep their rights there's no advantage in postponing the signing, for FA purposes.

As for extracting more value from the extensions, probably it's true that nobody would have tried to sign them both (maybe the 76rs; from the outside looks like it would make sense to them for a number of reasons, hometown included), but if you let them play this season you also take the 'risk' of them actually doing better (which so far seems the case) so you have to adjust an eventual offer. At some

And since Bledsoe and Tucker's deals were up, and were kept, the cap space was essentially gone regardless, once Dragic's (and Green's) own cap hold of 11.5M hits. That's it, assuming you are not into renouncing to or letting Bledsoe and the twins go for nothing.

Loving these stats!

I too am okay with dealing for Monroe. Not a whole lot of guys can play alongside both Alex and Markieff, and while the Kieff/Greg front court won't defend the rim well, it should be good offensively and on the boards. Of course, this would mean changing our style - which I, for one, think we should consider.

Ring_Wanted wrote: Their combined cap hold would have been one more million than the deals they actually got, so as long as you keep their rights there's no advantage in postponing the signing, for FA purposes.

They are both making $3M/yr this year, wouldn't their cap holds have been $12M?

250% of 3M so 7.5M each, actually. It's 250% because the team has Bird rights and the last salary paid is under the league average.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:43 am

Dragic is by far the best of the three. Bledsoe defends better and is stronger; IT3 is a better pure scorer. But I want the ball in Dragic's hands; I want him directing our offense. And I just freaking like the guy way better; he's a good dude and has great character and should be a Sun for life.