Phx-Suns.Net

SwingMan wrote:

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:

SwingMan wrote:Ah, rosterbation - the off-season rite.

Ha.. indeed.

Remember off-seasons without the internet?

Yep - Lindy's.

Love how folks (INF, I'm looking at you, here) want to tear up half the roster just to get their guys and 3 rookies on the team - meantime, others (SDC, chiefly) want to re-create the humiliation that was 2012-2013 at premium cost (via Gortat, who's looking for a big raise as he turns 30).

Skill gets you nothing without toughness when you're a 5 - and Hawes has none. None. And Henson, from what I've seen, is almost as bad as a Frye-without-a-jumpshot in the toughness department.

And what's the general thought around here of paying Gortat 8 figures for what he did in 2012-2013?

I'm on record as wanting the Suns to use all three 1st rounders, but at what cost? Who's going to get cut?

Look - all I ask is to keep the scenarios based in reality. Leave the wet dreams to the respective special socks or whatever - please?

Amen Swing!

My hope is for a Star PF or SF - or BOTH (but one would do just fine), make's their way to the Valley next season. Way too early to know all the options which will be available this offseason. So much depends on what happens in the playoffs. Don't think Mc "D" will tip his hand till it's all said and done. Wouldn't want it any other way though.

Will say this though, would be nice to be treated to a similar repeat of 1992, when the Barkley trade came out of nowhere. Sure would be sweet, but I'm not predicting it. I'd even be fine if we decided to swap picks for next year if we can't get considerably better this year using them. No sense using our cards this year if nothing makes us title contenders next year or the year after. I've waited this long for a real title contender, that I could wait a bit longer if the right deal doesn't surface this offseason. I just know it feels good to have a competent staff at the helm making the decisions now.

Swingy, I'm with you here. No sense in replacing Plumlee + Frye with Henson + Hawes. No sense whatsoever in going back to the Blanks era, either.

Plumlee looked great until opposing defenses started paying attention to him, making him lose his confidence. I've always thought of him as a 7-foot Marion. Have him develop a jump shot and make him a two-dimensional offensive threat. He'll either be a decent starter or excellent backup.

If Frye opts out and gets a big contract, I can see the Suns signing Hawes as a replacement.

virtual9mm wrote:Swingy, I'm with you here. No sense in replacing Plumlee + Frye with Henson + Hawes. No sense whatsoever in going back to the Blanks era, either.

Plumlee looked great until opposing defenses started paying attention to him, making him lose his confidence. I've always thought of him as a 7-foot Marion. Have him develop a jump shot and make him a two-dimensional offensive threat. He'll either be a decent starter or excellent backup.

have you seen any suns game at all?

SDC wrote:

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:My thing with Chandler is that he still leaves us with no post offense, hes an upgrade from Plumlee, but really with another year of wear and tear how much of an actual upgrade is he?

i'd rather bring back gortat. and lure jermaine oneal back. oneal wont cost much.

If we could have worked out a good extention with Gortat, he would still be here. I agree in pricipal; If we had any idea we were going to be this good, we would have / should have kept him. He would have been the missing piece this year, and we would probably be a 4 seed.

SwingMan wrote: Love how folks (INF, I'm looking at you, here) want to tear up half the roster just to get their guys and 3 rookies on the team

That's a silly statement to make on a thread where I have a long post arguing to keep Gerald Green.

And nothing has to be done to the roster to use all three of our draft picks, unless you're particularly partial to Dionte Christmas, Leandro Barbosa, and Shavlik Randolph.

As far as getting my guys, I think that's really weak, Swing. I just want the Suns to get better. And as a non-contender, I believe in upgrading the talent on the roster when possible. I just want to field the best team possible.

Look - all I ask is to keep the scenarios based in reality. Leave the wet dreams to the respective special socks or whatever - please?

I'm not sure how pursuing Hawes/Henson is unrealistic. You may not like it, but that doesn't make it unrealistic. It's not like I'm demanding the Suns bring in Kevin Love and Serge Ibaka.

Doh, I'm dumb.

Nothing to see here.

INFORMER wrote:

SwingMan wrote: Love how folks (INF, I'm looking at you, here) want to tear up half the roster just to get their guys and 3 rookies on the team

That's a silly statement to make on a thread where I have a long post arguing to keep Gerald Green.

And nothing has to be done to the roster to use all three of our draft picks, unless you're particularly partial to Dionte Christmas, Leandro Barbosa, and Shavlik Randolph.

As far as getting my guys, I think that's really weak, Swing. I just want the Suns to get better. And as a non-contender, I believe in upgrading the talent on the roster when possible. I just want to field the best team possible.

Look - all I ask is to keep the scenarios based in reality. Leave the wet dreams to the respective special socks or whatever - please?

I'm not sure how pursuing Hawes/Henson is unrealistic. You may not like it, but that doesn't make it unrealistic. It's not like I'm demanding the Suns bring in Kevin Love and Serge Ibaka.

Maybe I should've added that any scenario progress us as opposed to regression. Do you really think Hawes/Henson inproves us?

INF, I've seen your scenarios enough that I know you have pimped several players that you personally have liked at the expense of the team as a whole - Terrence Williams comes to mind, until his harsh Rockets tenure smacked you dead in the kisser and rattled that affinity out of mind.

What about Len - or have you factored in his jettisoning already? If you're going to bring up his ankles, there's been absolutely no reports the last half of the season about them or any adverse affects he may be experiencing - only that he's still adjusting to the speed of the NBA game and needs to stick around this summer in part to make up for the lost SL/training camp that he missed last year to do so. He and Goodwin both made strides in the limited run they got this season - are you willing to sacrifice those two for retreads who've long ago hit their respective ceilings?

Frye needs gone in the worst way, yet you want a lateral (at best) move in Hawes - hell, drafting Adreian Payne would be a better move than either of 'em and at a fraction of the cost.

virtual9mm wrote:Swingy, I'm with you here. No sense in replacing Plumlee + Frye with Henson + Hawes. No sense whatsoever in going back to the Blanks era, either.

Plumlee looked great until opposing defenses started paying attention to him, making him lose his confidence. I've always thought of him as a 7-foot Marion. Have him develop a jump shot and make him a two-dimensional offensive threat. He'll either be a decent starter or excellent backup.

If Frye opts out and gets a big contract, I can see the Suns signing Hawes as a replacement.

As I said in my previous post, Frye needs gone in the worst way - great person and a wonderful story, but he absolutely drags the team down when his shot isn't on (which had been the last 2/3 of the season).

Adreian Payne fits the mold with better rebounding and defense (I know, I know - that's not saying much ) - if we happen to snag Kevin Love, that's moot, but Payne would be the best option moving forward if we don't.

SwingMan wrote: Do you really think Hawes/Henson inproves us?

Obviously I do. And I explained why in my post ShelC. But I guess you weren't paying attention. Or it's just more fun to berate me, question my motives and competence. But that's par for the course with you.

INF, I've seen your scenarios enough that I know you have pimped several players that you personally have liked at the expense of the team as a whole - Terrence Williams comes to mind, until his harsh Rockets tenure smacked you dead in the kisser and rattled that affinity out of mind.

That's a Cubby post. But Terrence Williams?! Really? I never claimed to be right all the time, and I own up to when I am wrong. So I guess since once upon a time ago I wanted Terrence Williams, that invalidates all of my opinions. That's reasonable, Mr. Anthony Bennett.

And for the record, I wanted to bring in Terrence Williams on the minimum. Instead the Suns signed Michael Beasley to a 3-year/$20 million deal. Remind me again who's wanting to bring in players at the expense of the team.

Frye needs gone in the worst way, yet you want a lateral (at best) move in Hawes - hell, drafting Adreian Payne would be a better move than either of 'em and at a fraction of the cost.

Wouldn't it have been easier to say this in the first place, and dispense with the boorish commentary? I like Adreian Payne. I've said so before.

And I do think Hawes is an improvement on Frye. I want Hawes because I want retain some perimeter shooting at the 4 or 5 spot. He's better passer and rebounder than Frye is, and he's more versatile on the offensive end. So no, I wouldn't say he would be a lateral move.

I don't think Payne is ready for the NBA yet. He's an interesting prospect but if you think you're plugging him in next year for Frye & it's instant upgrade you're wrong. I'm still holding out hope for McDermott at 14 and Capela as my big man project over Payne at 18. For 26 there's a few names I'm interested in: Payton, Hood, LaVine, and Big Dog III (who I still really like.)

Not too versed in 2nd round prospects but I like this kid out off LSU, O'Bryant, and of course my homie Poythress but he may be going back to school.

carey wrote:I don't think Payne is ready for the NBA yet. He's an interesting prospect but if you think you're plugging him in next year for Frye & it's instant upgrade you're wrong.

Well it's certainly a lot to presume. I wouldn't want the Suns to put themselves or Payne in that position.

I'm still holding out hope for McDermott at 14 and Capela as my big man project over Payne at 18. For 26 there's a few names I'm interested in: Payton, Hood, LaVine, and Big Dog III (who I still really like.)

I think McDermott could fall to 14, though I think Philly will want to snatch him up with their second lotto pick. I think Capela has a very goo chance of being the Suns pick because I think he played his way out of the lottery in the Nike Hoop Summit game. I think McDonough would pick him because he's a good candidate for draft and stash.

GR3 definitely had a disappointing year, but he still showed enough to be tempting at the end of the first round. In toher words, I think you're more than justified to still like him.

Not too versed in 2nd round prospects but I like this kid out off LSU, O'Bryant, and of course my homie Poythress but he may be going back to school.

I like Deandre Kane, Javon McCrea, Alex Kirk, DJ Covington, Joe Harris, and Lamar Patterson.

SwingMan wrote: What about Len - or have you factored in his jettisoning already? If you're going to bring up his ankles, there's been absolutely no reports the last half of the season about them or any adverse affects he may be experiencing - only that he's still adjusting to the speed of the NBA game and needs to stick around this summer in part to make up for the lost SL/training camp that he missed last year to do so. He and Goodwin both made strides in the limited run they got this season - are you willing to sacrifice those two for retreads who've long ago hit their respective ceilings?

I don't see any reason to move Len. I don't think that would accomplish anything. He's worth developing. But I don't see him starting or giving the Suns 30 mpg next season. I subscribe to Shabazz's train of thought to try to upgrade the 5 spot and hope Len progresses to the point to be a reliable reserve playing 18 mpg or so.

And who are the retreads? Henson and Hawes? How is John Henson a retread? And what do Hawes/Henson have to do with Goodwin?

SwingMan wrote:As I said in my previous post, Frye needs gone in the worst way - great person and a wonderful story, but he absolutely drags the team down when his shot isn't on (which had been the last 2/3 of the season).

You keep saying this 2/3, but it's simply not true.

November, 16 games: 41%
December, 13 games: 43%
January, 16 games: 42%
February, 12 games: 33%
March, 16 games: 28.6%
April, 8 games: 31%

INFORMER wrote:

SwingMan wrote: Do you really think Hawes/Henson inproves us?

Obviously I do. And I explained why in my post ShelC. But I guess you weren't paying attention. Or it's just more fun to berate me, question my motives and competence. But that's par for the course with you.

INF, I've seen your scenarios enough that I know you have pimped several players that you personally have liked at the expense of the team as a whole - Terrence Williams comes to mind, until his harsh Rockets tenure smacked you dead in the kisser and rattled that affinity out of mind.

That's a Cubby post. But Terrence Williams?! Really? I never claimed to be right all the time, and I own up to when I am wrong. So I guess since once upon a time ago I wanted Terrence Williams, that invalidates all of my opinions. That's reasonable, Mr. Anthony Bennett.

And for the record, I wanted to bring in Terrence Williams on the minimum. Instead the Suns signed Michael Beasley to a 3-year/$20 million deal. Remind me again who's wanting to bring in players at the expense of the team.

Frye needs gone in the worst way, yet you want a lateral (at best) move in Hawes - hell, drafting Adreian Payne would be a better move than either of 'em and at a fraction of the cost.

Wouldn't it have been easier to say this in the first place, and dispense with the boorish commentary? I like Adreian Payne. I've said so before.

And I do think Hawes is an improvement on Frye. I want Hawes because I want retain some perimeter shooting at the 4 or 5 spot. He's better passer and rebounder than Frye is, and he's more versatile on the offensive end. So no, I wouldn't say he would be a lateral move.

"Boorish commentary"? Pardon me - but after having to wade through imbecilic roster scenarios and battling fantasies year after year, I think I'm being rather reserved.

And, way to be thin-skinned and take every challenge personal. All I saw out of your reply to ShelC was, once again - say it with me, now - lat-er-al. Terrence Williams was merely an example - I can't remember every single player, but I know you wanted to damn near give up the farm for players like Austin Daye and Jonas Jerebko simply because you liked their skill set as opposed to how they'd fit on the team and in the system. And, I said you woke up and realized your mistake - only that it took getting Terrence Williams 6 inches in front of your face to do it.

Then again, your roster policy is obviously "if it ain't broke, fuck with it" - I'll be waiting for an Andy_S-like response & check to see if my post disappears after a short while.

Ring_Wanted wrote:

SwingMan wrote:As I said in my previous post, Frye needs gone in the worst way - great person and a wonderful story, but he absolutely drags the team down when his shot isn't on (which had been the last 2/3 of the season).

You keep saying this 2/3, but it's simply not true.

November, 16 games: 41%
December, 13 games: 43%
January, 16 games: 42%
February, 12 games: 33%
March, 16 games: 28.6%
April, 8 games: 31%

Oh - so his shot, statistically, has "only" been off for 3 1/2 months as opposed to 4 months?

Why, shame on me - Frye is obviously the missing piece!!!!!

INFORMER wrote:

SwingMan wrote: What about Len - or have you factored in his jettisoning already? If you're going to bring up his ankles, there's been absolutely no reports the last half of the season about them or any adverse affects he may be experiencing - only that he's still adjusting to the speed of the NBA game and needs to stick around this summer in part to make up for the lost SL/training camp that he missed last year to do so. He and Goodwin both made strides in the limited run they got this season - are you willing to sacrifice those two for retreads who've long ago hit their respective ceilings?

I don't see any reason to move Len. I don't think that would accomplish anything. He's worth developing. But I don't see him starting or giving the Suns 30 mpg next season. I subscribe to Shabazz's train of thought to try to upgrade the 5 spot and hope Len progresses to the point to be a reliable reserve playing 18 mpg or so.

And who are the retreads? Henson and Hawes? How is John Henson a retread? And what do Hawes/Henson have to do with Goodwin?

It's about crowding rookies who need run to develop - plain and simple.

And retreads are not entirely >28 years of age - see Blair, DeJuan. Get the drift?

SwingMan wrote:

Ring_Wanted wrote:

SwingMan wrote:As I said in my previous post, Frye needs gone in the worst way - great person and a wonderful story, but he absolutely drags the team down when his shot isn't on (which had been the last 2/3 of the season).

You keep saying this 2/3, but it's simply not true.

November, 16 games: 41%
December, 13 games: 43%
January, 16 games: 42%
February, 12 games: 33%
March, 16 games: 28.6%
April, 8 games: 31%

Oh - so his shot, statistically, has "only" been off for 3 1/2 months as opposed to 4 months?

Are you doing this on purpose or what?

2/3 of a season means 55 games.

Then, 3 1/2 months? What?

It's actually two months and a half if you care to aknowledge that April has half the games or a 'regular' month, don't you think?

Ring_Wanted wrote:

SwingMan wrote:

Ring_Wanted wrote:

SwingMan wrote:As I said in my previous post, Frye needs gone in the worst way - great person and a wonderful story, but he absolutely drags the team down when his shot isn't on (which had been the last 2/3 of the season).

You keep saying this 2/3, but it's simply not true.

November, 16 games: 41%
December, 13 games: 43%
January, 16 games: 42%
February, 12 games: 33%
March, 16 games: 28.6%
April, 8 games: 31%

Oh - so his shot, statistically, has "only" been off for 3 1/2 months as opposed to 4 months?

Are you doing this on purpose or what?

2/3 of a season means 55 games.

Then, 3 1/2 months? What?

It's actually two months and a half if you care to aknowledge that April has half the games or a 'regular' month, don't you think?

I'd like to see the link to the month of January's statistic above - I remember Frye being hot the first couple of months of the season, then dropping WAY off not long after Bledsoe went down.....

Ring_Wanted wrote:http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_ ... nning-frye

Hmm - bouyed by a couple 5-10 games from 3 (those he doesn't let his toe get over the damn line) and, like I stated, dropped off not long after Bledsoe went down. Maybe the increased attempts made it seem like he was more off. I'll concede that it was "just" 2 1/2 months overall, though.

But, if you want a player that performs just half a season (hell, half a game per, as, seldom if at all, do we see anything from him beyond the 1st Q), to each their own - just don't expect me to agree & think that that's good enough for a team looking to progress.