Phx-Suns.Net

ShelC wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:05 am

4 years 70ish is what THJ and Bazemore got in 2016.

They were overpaid, but Oubre is better. A front loaded deal also lessens the impact, as what we pay him this year won’t be a big deal. The later years are the more important ones.

I’ve been thinking about what it would take to trade Tyler Johnson and I found something interesting. Clippers have 52 million in cap space. A max contract for Kawhi(32.7) plus Tyler Johnson’s salary(19.2) totals up to 51.9 million. Clippers would then clear 40 million(Gallo and Tyler) in 2020 to add another piece. They may just prefer to use the cap space this summer, which makes a lot of sense, but they could be a possible dumping spot. We’d obviously have to include some incentive(lottery protected 1st) but that might be preferred to having 6 million in the books for Tyler the next 3 years.

Pelicans were another team I thought might prefer to roll over their cap space to next year.

The clippers situation may make even more sense if Kawhi signs a 1+1 with Toronto. They won’t want to lose their cap space, so bringing in an expiring makes sense.

Philly is another team that could have loads of space depending on what happens with Butler, Harris, and Reddick.

These are obviously only options if we’re getting Russell or Brogdon.

Next year's free agent class is... not great. Unless a lot of guys take 1+1 deals this Summer.

True, might make more sense to cash in this summer

I'm reading on Twitter that the Warriors may not resign Shaun Livingston. Any interest in going after him as a backup PG option?

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:24 am

Cap wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:23 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:16 am

Cap wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:13 am

We can’t afford to break the bank for Kelly when he’d be competing for minutes with Mikal, Dario and Cam. We have to be ready to let him walk if he signs a juicy offer with another team.

We could always front load the contract. That could help give us space in the future before we extend Bridges/Ayton.

Would you guys do a 4 years 72 million contract that starts at 20 million and decreases each year. Something like 20/18.4/16.9/15.5?

That’s not an option if we’re matching an offer sheet from another team.

That’s why you don’t let it get to that. Offer him this the first minute of free agency.

If!! We can get Russell or Brogdon, I’m not offering Oubre anything more than we can afford in order to be able to sign one of those two. I’d rather let Oubre walk than lose out on them because of him when we already have Bridges.

If neither of those two are in the plans, then just give the man whatever he wants this year.

Why would an offer to Russell or Brogdan keep the Suns from paying Oubre?

In2ition wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:12 am

Why would an offer to Russell or Brogdan keep the Suns from paying Oubre?

Because they wouldn't have any cap space, unless you think Saver is selling to eat a $20 million buyout. He might be, but I don't think it can just be assumed.

Ya, what we pay Oubre doesn’t have any bearing on Russell/Brogdon.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:25 am

In2ition wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:12 am

Why would an offer to Russell or Brogdan keep the Suns from paying Oubre?

Because they wouldn't have any cap space, unless you think Saver is selling to eat a $20 million buyout. He might be, but I don't think it can just be assumed.

Well renouncing Oubre doesn’t get us enough cap space either. The only chance we have at Russell/Brogdon is moving Tyler or waive and stretching him. Oubre has no impact on Russell/Brogdon

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:26 am

Ya, what we pay Oubre doesn’t have any bearing on Russell/Brogdon.

Yes it does dude.

Unless we wait on signing Oubre until after we use up our cap space, which is a dangerous game letting him hear offers from other teams.

If we sign him right away it eats our space. We can go over the cap to sign him, but we can’t go over the cap to sign other teams FA

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:25 am

In2ition wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:12 am

Why would an offer to Russell or Brogdan keep the Suns from paying Oubre?

Because they wouldn't have any cap space, unless you think Saver is selling to eat a $20 million buyout. He might be, but I don't think it can just be assumed.

If they are even attempting to offer Brogdan or Russell, it's assumed that Tyler is gone, through some gift trade or stretch and waive. Just renouncing Kelly's cap hold doesn't get the Suns to the max pffer for DLo, but could possibly get them to the Brogdan range. I assumed that they like Oubre and want to bring him back.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:50 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:26 am

Ya, what we pay Oubre doesn’t have any bearing on Russell/Brogdon.

Yes it does dude.

Unless we wait on signing Oubre until after we use up our cap space, which is a dangerous game letting him hear offers from other teams.

If we sign him right away it eats our space. We can go over the cap to sign him, but we can’t go over the cap to sign other teams FA

If they sign another teams FA, they can still sign Oubre and go over the cap. The timing is the key. They need to sign the FA first, then sign Kelly. They really are only going over the cap the difference in his cap hold and whatever the salary he garners per year.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:50 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:26 am

Ya, what we pay Oubre doesn’t have any bearing on Russell/Brogdon.

Yes it does dude.

Unless we wait on signing Oubre until after we use up our cap space, which is a dangerous game letting him hear offers from other teams.

If we sign him right away it eats our space. We can go over the cap to sign him, but we can’t go over the cap to sign other teams FA

You can agree with Oubre on a deal and wait to officially sign him until we’ve used our cap space. This literally happens all the time.

In2ition wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:54 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:25 am

In2ition wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:12 am

Why would an offer to Russell or Brogdan keep the Suns from paying Oubre?

Because they wouldn't have any cap space, unless you think Saver is selling to eat a $20 million buyout. He might be, but I don't think it can just be assumed.

If they are even attempting to offer Brogdan or Russell, it's assumed that Tyler is gone, through some gift trade or stretch and waive. Just renouncing Kelly's cap hold doesn't get the Suns to the max pffer for DLo, but could possibly get them to the Brogdan range. I assumed that they like Oubre and want to bring him back.

You realize his hold is less than what he’s going to get right?

Right now with his ?9.6M hold, we have 14M in space
So if we sign him to 18M/per, that cuts into our space and we have 6M left.

Only way it doesn’t hurt us is if we sign our FA first then extend him.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:58 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:50 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:26 am

Ya, what we pay Oubre doesn’t have any bearing on Russell/Brogdon.

Yes it does dude.

Unless we wait on signing Oubre until after we use up our cap space, which is a dangerous game letting him hear offers from other teams.

If we sign him right away it eats our space. We can go over the cap to sign him, but we can’t go over the cap to sign other teams FA

You can agree with Oubre on a deal and wait to officially sign him until we’ve used our cap space. This literally happens all the time.

Again, dangerous game. Allowing him to hear from other teams opens up a possibility of a team offering him a HB deal which would be awful.

It’s a risk. At this point I assume the Suns know if DLo is someone they want and someone who wants to be here.

I’m taking Brogdon and risking losing Oubre over it if it’s me.

If we can’t get Brogdon or Russell to sign an offer sheet right away, then I’m signing Oubre right away before allowing him to test the market.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:58 am

In2ition wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:54 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:25 am

In2ition wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:12 am

Why would an offer to Russell or Brogdan keep the Suns from paying Oubre?

Because they wouldn't have any cap space, unless you think Saver is selling to eat a $20 million buyout. He might be, but I don't think it can just be assumed.

If they are even attempting to offer Brogdan or Russell, it's assumed that Tyler is gone, through some gift trade or stretch and waive. Just renouncing Kelly's cap hold doesn't get the Suns to the max pffer for DLo, but could possibly get them to the Brogdan range. I assumed that they like Oubre and want to bring him back.

You realize his hold is less than what he’s going to get right?

Right now with his ?9.6M hold, we have 14M in space
So if we sign him to 18M/per, that cuts into our space and we have 6M left.

Only way it doesn’t hurt us is if we sign our FA first then extend him.

You sign the FA for $14 of space, then sign Kelly for $20 mil, you went over the cap by $10 mil plus.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:00 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:58 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:50 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:26 am

Ya, what we pay Oubre doesn’t have any bearing on Russell/Brogdon.

Yes it does dude.

Unless we wait on signing Oubre until after we use up our cap space, which is a dangerous game letting him hear offers from other teams.

If we sign him right away it eats our space. We can go over the cap to sign him, but we can’t go over the cap to sign other teams FA

You can agree with Oubre on a deal and wait to officially sign him until we’ve used our cap space. This literally happens all the time.

Again, dangerous game. Allowing him to hear from other teams opens up a possibility of a team offering him a HB deal which would be awful.

It’s a risk. At this point I assume the Suns know if DLo is someone they want and someone who wants to be here.

I’m taking Brogdon and risking losing Oubre over it if it’s me.

If we can’t get Brogdon or Russell to sign an offer sheet right away, then I’m signing Oubre right away before allowing him to test the market.

If they can agree to a contract with DLo, they stretch and waive Tyler. They then sign DLo for his max and still can match any offer for Oubre without sacrifice or renouncing his cap hold.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:00 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:58 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:50 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:26 am

Ya, what we pay Oubre doesn’t have any bearing on Russell/Brogdon.

Yes it does dude.

Unless we wait on signing Oubre until after we use up our cap space, which is a dangerous game letting him hear offers from other teams.

If we sign him right away it eats our space. We can go over the cap to sign him, but we can’t go over the cap to sign other teams FA

You can agree with Oubre on a deal and wait to officially sign him until we’ve used our cap space. This literally happens all the time.

Again, dangerous game. Allowing him to hear from other teams opens up a possibility of a team offering him a HB deal which would be awful.

It’s a risk. At this point I assume the Suns know if DLo is someone they want and someone who wants to be here.

I’m taking Brogdon and risking losing Oubre over it if it’s me.

If we can’t get Brogdon or Russell to sign an offer sheet right away, then I’m signing Oubre right away before allowing him to test the market.

That’s fair. It’s up to Oubre, but if we meet with him at the start of free agency and agree to a deal, he won’t be meeting with other teams. If he wants to test the market, then there is nothing we can do about that. I don’t see anyone making an offer very early though. As long as we can figure things out by July 6th, we can do both.

There is talk that the Clippers would have to get rid of Gallinari if they want to sign KD and Kawhi. I would think about a trade of Jackson, Melton and Okobo for Gallinari.