Yeah it’s too bad Ayton has never posterized anybody in his entire life.
That's disingenuous and you know it... The Valley Oop will forever live on in Suns lore. Amare was just doing it on a more consistent level and he didn't have as sweet as a pull up shot as Ayton, so i'd argue Amare's game REQUIRED him to posterize people way more. Ayton's game is more rounded, and we all just wish he'd add that level of tenacity Amare showed, nothing wrong with that.
You gotta admit, though, it's kind of hilarious that people say, "Ayton never dunks" when the greatest play in Suns history was an Ayton dunk.
The greatest play in all of the Suns history was an Ayton dunk? Greatest play in all of Suns history? I think you might be grasping a little. Who did you poll for that?
"My mindset was to dominate. That was my only mindset and every night I played with that type of mentality. There were no finger rolls Ayton soft layups at the rim for me. I wanted to let the fans, the opposing teams know that I'm here and we're here."
Interesting...
Let's hope Amare has "the talk" with Ayton. They have a lot in common. Both last names start with 'A' and are five letters.
Pretty sure Ayton already has a kid... He's well past "the talk"
He needs a "shit or get off the pot" talk.
The talk I was referring to was about mentality when taking the ball to the rim. You know…regarding the content I quoted.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
"My mindset was to dominate. That was my only mindset and every night I played with that type of mentality. There were no finger rolls Ayton soft layups at the rim for me. I wanted to let the fans, the opposing teams know that I'm here and we're here."
Interesting...
Let's hope Amare has "the talk" with Ayton. They have a lot in common. Both last names start with 'A' and are five letters.
'Deandre Ayton' and 'Amare Stoudemire'?
Exactly.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
"My mindset was to dominate. That was my only mindset and every night I played with that type of mentality. There were no finger rolls Ayton soft layups at the rim for me. I wanted to let the fans, the opposing teams know that I'm here and we're here."
Interesting...
Let's hope Amare has "the talk" with Ayton. They have a lot in common. Both last names start with 'A' and are five letters.
'Deandre Ayton' and 'Amare Stoudemire'?
It's before noon and he's retired... I'll give him a pass. LOL
I appreciate that. Can I use it to ride the bus to the Golden Corral too for my 4 pm supper?
I actually set my alarm this morning! Can you believe it?! I had a 11 am appointment at Charles Schwab.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
It's hard to watch old footage of Amare because it just makes me mad that Ayton is such a ninny. Amare wanted to tear the darn rim down on every dunk, and he knew exactly how to use his size and strength to go to the basket and either get a dunk or use his physicality to create an angle for himself.
I wonder if I wouldn’t be so frustrated had Amare never played here. But then, nah, I don’t think so. I’ve been watching basketball for a long time. There’s a reason that college basketball outlawed dunks at one time.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
In comparison of Amare and Ayton of their years from 22-24 yrs old per 100 possessions:
Amare had 8 more FT attempts per game. I think that's the difference. He moved with force, created contact, and tried to score through guys so they felt it.
Agree. You know guys were really trying to get themselves up (or had a little intimidation) going up against Amare because he was going to try to score through you many times that night. I can't imagine anyone being worried about Ayton making their night physically difficult.
One of my favorite all-time Amare memories was the night in Boston where he dunked through Paul Pierce and knocked him to the ground along with a couple teeth and Tommy Heinsohn losing it on the Boston broadcast and continued to whine throughout the entire game. I had that on my DVR for so long. I wish I had a way to archive that.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
"My mindset was to dominate. That was my only mindset and every night I played with that type of mentality. There were no finger rolls Ayton soft layups at the rim for me. I wanted to let the fans, the opposing teams know that I'm here and we're here."
Interesting...
Let's hope Amare has "the talk" with Ayton. They have a lot in common. Both last names start with 'A' and are five letters.
'Deandre Ayton' and 'Amare Stoudemire'?
It's before noon and he's retired... I'll give him a pass. LOL
I appreciate that. Can I use it to ride the bus to the Golden Corral too for my 4 pm supper?
I actually set my alarm this morning! Can you believe it?! I had a 11 am appointment at Charles Schwab.
BAHAHAHA! 11am... Surprised you didn't get there and they were closed for lunch.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
"My mindset was to dominate. That was my only mindset and every night I played with that type of mentality. There were no finger rolls Ayton soft layups at the rim for me. I wanted to let the fans, the opposing teams know that I'm here and we're here."
Interesting...
Let's hope Amare has "the talk" with Ayton. They have a lot in common. Both last names start with 'A' and are five letters.
'Deandre Ayton' and 'Amare Stoudemire'?
It's before noon and he's retired... I'll give him a pass. LOL
I appreciate that. Can I use it to ride the bus to the Golden Corral too for my 4 pm supper?
I actually set my alarm this morning! Can you believe it?! I had a 11 am appointment at Charles Schwab.
I have an Ameritrade account. They just merged with Charles Schwab and all Ameritrade accounts will be Schwab soon.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Yeah it’s too bad Ayton has never posterized anybody in his entire life.
That's disingenuous and you know it... The Valley Oop will forever live on in Suns lore. Amare was just doing it on a more consistent level and he didn't have as sweet as a pull up shot as Ayton, so i'd argue Amare's game REQUIRED him to posterize people way more. Ayton's game is more rounded, and we all just wish he'd add that level of tenacity Amare showed, nothing wrong with that.
You gotta admit, though, it's kind of hilarious that people say, "Ayton never dunks" when the greatest play in Suns history was an Ayton dunk.
The greatest play in all of the Suns history was an Ayton dunk? Greatest play in all of Suns history? I think you might be grasping a little. Who did you poll for that?
Lol what? All of those were published before 2021!
I don’t need to poll anyone. Objectively speaking, it’s the greatest play in Suns history from a logical standpoint, through process of elimination. I didn’t say greatest win or greatest shot, either. I said greatest single play. There’s an important difference there.
In order to be the greatest play in history, it obviously has to be in the playoffs, not the regular season. And it needs to have the most importance of any play.
Marbury’s, Chapman’s, and Thomas’ shots were all in the first round and in years where we didn’t advance to the Finals. Raja Bell’s shot was in the second round in a year we didn’t advance to the Finals. Barkley’s shot was in a year we did advance to the Finals, but it was in the second round, not the WCF. Heard’s shot was in the Finals, but it was in a loss. There have only been two close wins in the Finals, and neither one involved a great buzzer-beating play.
So that leaves us with the WCF. Ayton’s shot put us up 2-0 in the WCF which led to our third Finals appearance in franchise history. In a season they went to the Finals, the Suns have only had one other one-possession win in the WCF. But it was a defensive play (block by Heard to force a Game 7), which means there is no way to know whether it even altered the outcome or not (Wilkes may have missed the shot anyway):
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Let's hope Amare has "the talk" with Ayton. They have a lot in common. Both last names start with 'A' and are five letters.
'Deandre Ayton' and 'Amare Stoudemire'?
It's before noon and he's retired... I'll give him a pass. LOL
I appreciate that. Can I use it to ride the bus to the Golden Corral too for my 4 pm supper?
I actually set my alarm this morning! Can you believe it?! I had a 11 am appointment at Charles Schwab.
I have an Ameritrade account. They just merged with Charles Schwab and all Ameritrade accounts will be Schwab soon.
Yes, it was a demonstration on how to use the Schwab.com website for account management, trading and research. One of the clients there today had come from Ameritrade.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2023 7:32 pm
by Superbone
Not surprisingly, the Suns are ranked #2 in the West going into the next NBA season.
Key addition(s): Bradley Beal, Eric Gordon, Yuta Watanabe
Key departure(s): Chris Paul, Cameron Payne, Torrey Craig, Landry Shamet
Coaching change: Monty Williams out, Frank Vogel in
Three numbers to know:
Paul, Devin Booker and Kevin Durant played 167 regular-season minutes and 202 playoff minutes together. The Suns were 12-3 in games in which they had all three and outscored their opponents by 13.4 points per 100 possessions in those 369 total minutes.
Only 13.4% of the Suns’ possessions, the league’s lowest rate, were in transition, according to Synergy tracking.
Durant shot 220-for-369 (59.6%) on pull-up 2-pointers, easily the best mark for a player with at least 100 attempts in the 10 years of tracking data.
Key question: Can they defend?
There’s little doubt that, even though they don’t have a point guard, the Suns’ offense will be ridiculously good. Durant will be 35 on opening night but remains one of the two best offensive players on the planet. Beal has missed 72 games over the last two seasons but is still just 30 years old. And Booker is still just 26 (until Oct. 30). All three of those guys are coming off the most efficient (Durant) or second-most efficient seasons of their careers.
Frank Vogel’s last team had the league’s No. 1 defense the season after it won a championship, which says a lot about his ability to coach that end of the floor. Durant was a terrific defender when he played last season and Josh Okogie is still here to be a bulldog off the bench. But that may not be enough for this to be a better-than-average defense unless Beal and Eric Gordon shed some of the bad habits they’re bringing from non-competitive teams.
The ceiling is high, but every team needs to play hard, play together and play defense to reach its ceiling. And those latter two elements will be the things to watch in Phoenix.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
So that leaves us with the WCF. Ayton’s shot put us up 2-0 in the WCF which led to our third Finals appearance in franchise history. In a season they went to the Finals, the Suns have only had one other one-possession win in the WCF. But it was a defensive play (block by Heard to force a Game 7), which means there is no way to know whether it even altered the outcome or not (Wilkes may have missed the shot anyway):
I don't think you don't actually know as much about Suns history as you think you do. Did you only look at final scores? Did you not realize that in that same playoff series where Heard made that amazing block in game 6 to seal a win (and Alvan Adams hit a crucial go-ahead shot on the offensive possession just prior to that), the Suns, down 2-1 and playing at home, were trailing heading into the final seconds of game 4 - at which point, Keith Erickson hit a tying shot with 2 seconds remaining to get to overtime; Ricky Sobers then matched it, drawing a foul at the end of the first overtime and hitting two free throws to tie it again with 2 seconds left. The Suns went on to win in the second overtime, but if either of those plays don't happen, the Suns lose, go down 3-1, and are eliminated in the next game at Golden State.
By your own "logical", "process of elimination" standards, those are both greater plays than Ayton's, which, as you point out, put the Suns up 2-0 in a series they eventually won in 6 games. They weren't facing almost certain elimination with a loss, like the '76 team was, and in fact it's not too difficult to imagine a world where that Clippers series at worst goes to a seventh game in Phoenix and the Suns win anyways.
So why don't people talk about those plays? Why don't they seem to come up? I think it's because of the players: Erickson was a 6th man for a few years, then drifted out of Suns history. Sobers didn't fit in to the pattern offense that John MacLeod wanted to play, was traded and likewise became just another name. They're not on the level of Barkley, Nash, Walter Davis, Paul Westphal, and other Suns that had great playoff moments, and that game isn't considered with the triple-overtime finals game or the "Save The City" finals game or others that people hold onto. You've got to have a legacy for your contribution to last.
Is the same thing going to happen to Ayton? I think that's up to him. I think that the hope remains that he'll regain the level of play that he had in the playoff run that year. But there's always seems to be a reason why he doesn't or can't or won't, and if that stays the case, then he'll drift out of Suns history too, a disappointment and an enigma.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
It's hard to watch old footage of Amare because it just makes me mad that Ayton is such a ninny. Amare wanted to tear the darn rim down on every dunk, and he knew exactly how to use his size and strength to go to the basket and either get a dunk or use his physicality to create an angle for himself.
Amar’e could be triple teamed 80’ from the bucket and he’d just elevate and dunk.
He’s the Chuck Norris of dunking.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
So that leaves us with the WCF. Ayton’s shot put us up 2-0 in the WCF which led to our third Finals appearance in franchise history. In a season they went to the Finals, the Suns have only had one other one-possession win in the WCF. But it was a defensive play (block by Heard to force a Game 7), which means there is no way to know whether it even altered the outcome or not (Wilkes may have missed the shot anyway):
I don't think you don't actually know as much about Suns history as you think you do. Did you only look at final scores? Did you not realize that in that same playoff series where Heard made that amazing block in game 6 to seal a win (and Alvan Adams hit a crucial go-ahead shot on the offensive possession just prior to that), the Suns, down 2-1 and playing at home, were trailing heading into the final seconds of game 4 - at which point, Keith Erickson hit a tying shot with 2 seconds remaining to get to overtime; Ricky Sobers then matched it, drawing a foul at the end of the first overtime and hitting two free throws to tie it again with 2 seconds left. The Suns went on to win in the second overtime, but if either of those plays don't happen, the Suns lose, go down 3-1, and are eliminated in the next game at Golden State.
By your own "logical", "process of elimination" standards, those are both greater plays than Ayton's, which, as you point out, put the Suns up 2-0 in a series they eventually won in 6 games. They weren't facing almost certain elimination with a loss, like the '76 team was, and in fact it's not too difficult to imagine a world where that Clippers series at worst goes to a seventh game in Phoenix and the Suns win anyways.
So why don't people talk about those plays? Why don't they seem to come up? I think it's because of the players: Erickson was a 6th man for a few years, then drifted out of Suns history. Sobers didn't fit in to the pattern offense that John MacLeod wanted to play, was traded and likewise became just another name. They're not on the level of Barkley, Nash, Walter Davis, Paul Westphal, and other Suns that had great playoff moments, and that game isn't considered with the triple-overtime finals game or the "Save The City" finals game or others that people hold onto. You've got to have a legacy for your contribution to last.
Is the same thing going to happen to Ayton? I think that's up to him. I think that the hope remains that he'll regain the level of play that he had in the playoff run that year. But there's always seems to be a reason why he doesn't or can't or won't, and if that stays the case, then he'll drift out of Suns history too, a disappointment and an enigma.
Jake Voshkul hit a game winner in the playoffs too. DA is as good as Jake Voshkul.
You see that logic. Just as delusional
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
So that leaves us with the WCF. Ayton’s shot put us up 2-0 in the WCF which led to our third Finals appearance in franchise history. In a season they went to the Finals, the Suns have only had one other one-possession win in the WCF. But it was a defensive play (block by Heard to force a Game 7), which means there is no way to know whether it even altered the outcome or not (Wilkes may have missed the shot anyway):
I don't think you don't actually know as much about Suns history as you think you do. Did you only look at final scores? Did you not realize that in that same playoff series where Heard made that amazing block in game 6 to seal a win (and Alvan Adams hit a crucial go-ahead shot on the offensive possession just prior to that), the Suns, down 2-1 and playing at home, were trailing heading into the final seconds of game 4 - at which point, Keith Erickson hit a tying shot with 2 seconds remaining to get to overtime; Ricky Sobers then matched it, drawing a foul at the end of the first overtime and hitting two free throws to tie it again with 2 seconds left. The Suns went on to win in the second overtime, but if either of those plays don't happen, the Suns lose, go down 3-1, and are eliminated in the next game at Golden State.
By your own "logical", "process of elimination" standards, those are both greater plays than Ayton's, which, as you point out, put the Suns up 2-0 in a series they eventually won in 6 games. They weren't facing almost certain elimination with a loss, like the '76 team was, and in fact it's not too difficult to imagine a world where that Clippers series at worst goes to a seventh game in Phoenix and the Suns win anyways.
So why don't people talk about those plays? Why don't they seem to come up? I think it's because of the players: Erickson was a 6th man for a few years, then drifted out of Suns history. Sobers didn't fit in to the pattern offense that John MacLeod wanted to play, was traded and likewise became just another name. They're not on the level of Barkley, Nash, Walter Davis, Paul Westphal, and other Suns that had great playoff moments, and that game isn't considered with the triple-overtime finals game or the "Save The City" finals game or others that people hold onto. You've got to have a legacy for your contribution to last.
Is the same thing going to happen to Ayton? I think that's up to him. I think that the hope remains that he'll regain the level of play that he had in the playoff run that year. But there's always seems to be a reason why he doesn't or can't or won't, and if that stays the case, then he'll drift out of Suns history too, a disappointment and an enigma.
Yeah, I’m sure Ayton is in danger of drifting out of Suns history and becoming just another Keith Erickson. (Which is not exactly true of Keith anyway, as he later became Al McCoy’s color commentator partner on Suns broadcasts for several years. That’s like saying Tim Kempton drifted out of Suns history).
And yes I considered game 4 (Keith’s shot is literally in the clip I posted), but those plays did not win the game. Yes, they would have lost without them (same with Ayton’s), but they did not cause them to win (like Ayton’s).
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:41 am
by ShelC
Crowder's pass is the highlight for me. The dunk gets the attention but Crowder had the smallest window to get that pass off.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Crowder's pass is the highlight for me. The dunk gets the attention but Crowder had the smallest window to get that pass off.
Which makes me wonder if the Crowder situation didn't happen, how much difference he would have made for us last season. Depth was definitely an issue in the Nuggets series. Bygones.
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
So that leaves us with the WCF. Ayton’s shot put us up 2-0 in the WCF which led to our third Finals appearance in franchise history. In a season they went to the Finals, the Suns have only had one other one-possession win in the WCF. But it was a defensive play (block by Heard to force a Game 7), which means there is no way to know whether it even altered the outcome or not (Wilkes may have missed the shot anyway):
I don't think you don't actually know as much about Suns history as you think you do. Did you only look at final scores? Did you not realize that in that same playoff series where Heard made that amazing block in game 6 to seal a win (and Alvan Adams hit a crucial go-ahead shot on the offensive possession just prior to that), the Suns, down 2-1 and playing at home, were trailing heading into the final seconds of game 4 - at which point, Keith Erickson hit a tying shot with 2 seconds remaining to get to overtime; Ricky Sobers then matched it, drawing a foul at the end of the first overtime and hitting two free throws to tie it again with 2 seconds left. The Suns went on to win in the second overtime, but if either of those plays don't happen, the Suns lose, go down 3-1, and are eliminated in the next game at Golden State.
By your own "logical", "process of elimination" standards, those are both greater plays than Ayton's, which, as you point out, put the Suns up 2-0 in a series they eventually won in 6 games. They weren't facing almost certain elimination with a loss, like the '76 team was, and in fact it's not too difficult to imagine a world where that Clippers series at worst goes to a seventh game in Phoenix and the Suns win anyways.
So why don't people talk about those plays? Why don't they seem to come up? I think it's because of the players: Erickson was a 6th man for a few years, then drifted out of Suns history. Sobers didn't fit in to the pattern offense that John MacLeod wanted to play, was traded and likewise became just another name. They're not on the level of Barkley, Nash, Walter Davis, Paul Westphal, and other Suns that had great playoff moments, and that game isn't considered with the triple-overtime finals game or the "Save The City" finals game or others that people hold onto. You've got to have a legacy for your contribution to last.
Is the same thing going to happen to Ayton? I think that's up to him. I think that the hope remains that he'll regain the level of play that he had in the playoff run that year. But there's always seems to be a reason why he doesn't or can't or won't, and if that stays the case, then he'll drift out of Suns history too, a disappointment and an enigma.
Yeah, I’m sure Ayton is in danger of drifting out of Suns history and becoming just another Keith Erickson. (Which is not exactly true of Keith anyway, as he later became Al McCoy’s color commentator partner on Suns broadcasts for several years. That’s like saying Tim Kempton drifted out of Suns history).
And yes I considered game 4 (Keith’s shot is literally in the clip I posted), but those plays did not win the game. Yes, they would have lost without them (same with Ayton’s), but they did not cause them to win (like Ayton’s).
DA = Voskuhl
Re: 2023 Suns General Offseason/PostSeason News Thread
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:06 am
by pickle
The top 50 from the decade video also reminds me of how much I loved sweet Lou. IIRC he rode a bike to the arena.
I appreciate that. Can I use it to ride the bus to the Golden Corral too for my 4 pm supper?
(Which is not exactly true of Keith anyway, as he later became Al McCoy’s color commentator partner on Suns broadcasts for several years. That’s like saying Tim Kempton drifted out of Suns history).