Page 74 of 257
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 4:42 pm
by In2ition
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 10:49 pm
I think it was on Zach Lowe's podcast that I heard the Suns can take back up to 120% of Ayton's salary if he's traded by July 1st(?), but after that it drops to 110% until the next trade deadline or something... Anyway, if Ishbones is as unconcerned with salary as it appears, they'd be more likely to take on seemingly oversized salaries like Hunter or Collins than middle around with less proven players who're cheaper.
If this is the case, it's only a difference of
$1,391,118 . Unless my math is incorrect.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 5:13 pm
by Drewsprocket
Superbone wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 4:13 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:49 am
Split T wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:45 am
JeremyG wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:36 am
Split T wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:34 am
WCJ is better than Ayton.
By what standard?
Stats last year are honestly very similar. Ayton took a few more shots and scored a little more. He had a slightly higher rebound rate. Blocks and steals about the same. WCJ has a higher assist rate.
I like that WCJ can shoot 3’s and has a little more juice as a playmaker. He also costs 1/3rd the price. So give me that and I’ll take the extra assets on top of that.
Ayton has much more talent and potential than WCJ. Monty wouldn’t let him shoot 3’s. And I wouldn’t call Isaac an “asset.”
I wouldn't let him shoot threes either. The further out from the hoop, the flatter his shot is.
Ayton with his slow release af flat earth 3 ball shot?! How many years has Ayton been in the league but with the same moves?
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 5:27 pm
by virtual9mm
To be fair to Jeremy, a lot of this is consistent with what he's been saying about Monty and is also why I wanted him gone. Does it mean that Ayton is going be self motivated? No. But I do wonder if there is a chance he could be salvaged in Phoenix.
Yes, I know we've been talking about these comments already. No, nobody has seen them as vindication for Jeremy. And I think it is fair at least in this one respect. It is kind of like how VT was the first one to hate on Ryan McDonough and everyone thought he was crazy until he was proven right.
https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2023 ... ndre-ayton
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 5:53 pm
by JeremyG
In2ition wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 4:42 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 10:49 pm
I think it was on Zach Lowe's podcast that I heard the Suns can take back up to 120% of Ayton's salary if he's traded by July 1st(?), but after that it drops to 110% until the next trade deadline or something... Anyway, if Ishbones is as unconcerned with salary as it appears, they'd be more likely to take on seemingly oversized salaries like Hunter or Collins than middle around with less proven players who're cheaper.
If this is the case, it's only a difference of
$1,391,118 . Unless my math is incorrect.
It’s 125% + $100,000. If you’re over the second apron it drops to 110%, which goes into effect July 1 but won’t necessarily apply to Phoenix immediately.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 5:59 pm
by JeremyG
JeremyG wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 10:05 am
I won’t say that there’s a zero percent chance Ayton gets traded like I said before the trade deadline, but I would put it at about 65% he returns, 35% he’s traded.
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:00 am
I said 65% chance of Ayton staying, with the Vogel hire I would now put it at about 75%.
I’m now putting it at 85% chance Ayton is staying.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 6:29 pm
by Vladimir_Taltos
JeremyG wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 5:59 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 10:05 am
I won’t say that there’s a zero percent chance Ayton gets traded like I said before the trade deadline, but I would put it at about 65% he returns, 35% he’s traded.
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:00 am
I said 65% chance of Ayton staying, with the Vogel hire I would now put it at about 75%.
I’m now putting it at 85% chance Ayton is staying.
The HIgh Priest of the DeAndre Church of the Spaghetti Center has spoken. So let it be written, so let it be done.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:11 pm
by SunsRIt
Gambo is pretty convinced Ayton is staying. He says it’s not 100% for him yet, but very probable.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:17 pm
by JeremyG
It’s the only thing that makes sense at this point.
And Vogel wanted both Paul and Ayton. They’re not going to get rid of both and start things off on a bad note with their new coach.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:21 pm
by Split T
How is it the only thing that makes sense?
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:22 pm
by Vladimir_Taltos
So then how do you propose we add any depth to the roster? Got a magic wand I don't know about?
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:29 pm
by virtual9mm
Vladimir_Taltos wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:22 pm
So then how do you propose we add any depth to the roster? Got a magic wand I don't know about?
Suspect ring chasers will more likely join the Suns without Monty vetoing
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:32 pm
by JeremyG
1. We all made fun of James Jones for his “continuity” obsession. But you can’t get rid of all continuity. And we know Jones doesn’t want to.
2. Nobody is blowing the Suns away with an offer or else something would have happened by now.
3. Vogel needs a good-to-great center for his system. So if you trade DA you have to get one of those back. So what “depth” are you getting in addition to that? One more mediocre player? Maybe a 9th or 10th man if lucky?
4. Ayton’s value is likely the lowest it will ever be. Why trade him now of all times?
5. Vogel wants to “restore” Ayton to an “All-Star level.”
6. There are free agents who want to come to Phoenix after the Beal trade. You can likely sign better players than you would get in a DA trade (in addition to the center you would be bringing back, which would likely be a downgrade from DA).
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:35 pm
by Vladimir_Taltos
virtual9mm wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:29 pm
Vladimir_Taltos wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:22 pm
So then how do you propose we add any depth to the roster? Got a magic wand I don't know about?
Suspect ring chasers will more likely join the Suns without Monty vetoing
I wish Kuzma would take that bent...DA, Kuz, KD, Beal, Booker would be a pretty tight starting rotation...Hopefully Goodwin and some rejuvenation in the bench from the coaching and/or a straggler or two coming in round out the bench and we're sitting pretty.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:37 pm
by Vladimir_Taltos
JeremyG wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:32 pm
1. We all made fun of James Jones for his “continuity” obsession. But you can’t get rid of all continuity. And we know Jones doesn’t want to.
2. Nobody is blowing the Suns away with an offer or else something would have happened by now.
3. Vogel needs a good-to-great center for his system. So if you trade DA you have to get one of those back. So what “depth” are you getting in addition to that? One more mediocre player? Maybe a 9th or 10th man if lucky?
4. Ayton’s value is likely the lowest it will ever be. Why trade him now of all times?
5. Vogel wants to “restore” Ayton to an “All-Star level.”
6. There are free agents who want to come to Phoenix after the Beal trade. You can likely sign better players than you would get in a DA trade (in addition to the center you would be bringing back, which would likely be a downgrade from DA).
Padre Jeremy has spoken...All hail DeAndre, all hail the Spaghetti Center...
Dude...78th in FTAs last year...7', 250lbs...and he was 78th in attempts. No heart dude...and you can't teach heart. You have it...or you don't. DeAndre? Tin Man...empty...slap him on the back on a Friday and its still echoing around by Sunday.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:39 pm
by Drewsprocket
Dude GMs are all just posturing rn. Everyone wants a deal on their terms save for Wizards lol. Nobody is going to jump on Ayton rn with bigger names like OG and Pascal, Dame, and Bam floating around. Best thing to do is to say Vogel is happy keeping Ayton. When the music stops playing some team is likely going to feel left out and want to make a deal. I hope suns lock up their vets asap.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:42 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
Nothing quite like overreacting to rumors from people who's job is to talk about rumors.
Tune in tomorrow and I'll explain why I changed from 97% certainty down to 84.3%!
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:43 pm
by Vladimir_Taltos
Going old school on a note from the Wise Ungle Gene, "Fix the paint!" D'A? He's never seen a brush or roller in his entire life...but he has seen the inside of a few Italian Restaurants...he HAS to LOVE spaghetti...
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:51 pm
by JeremyG
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:42 pm
Nothing quite like overreacting to rumors from people who's job is to talk about rumors.
Tune in tomorrow and I'll explain why I changed from 97% certainty down to 84.3%!
I’m not reacting to rumors.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:52 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
You're reacting to a guy who's job is to react to rumors and conjecture.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:56 pm
by JeremyG
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:52 pm
You're reacting to a guy who's job is to react to rumors.
Who? Gambo? Reacting to rumors???
See my reasons listed above.