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Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 12:26 pm
by INFORMER
Jeremy, you've been dismissive of trades for depth. And trading for depth has been what the vast majority of us have wanted to do. Trading for depth doesn't mean upgrading the center position. Trading for depth doesn't mean getting a star. Don't move the goal post.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 1:15 pm
by JeremyG
INFORMER wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 12:26 pm
Jeremy, you've been dismissive of trades for depth. And trading for depth has been what the vast majority of us have wanted to do. Trading for depth doesn't mean upgrading the center position. Trading for depth doesn't mean getting a star. Don't move the goal post.
You’re misquoting me. I never said it would have to be for a star. I didn’t say it would have to be an upgrade at center (I said someone Vogel likes at least as well as Ayton). I have said they aren’t going to trade him just to get rid of him and that it would have to actually make the team better.
If I was going to move the goal post, it wouldn’t be now, since I’m more confident than ever that they’re going to keep him.
There’s also a difference between definitely trading him if you get a really good offer for depth, and possibly trading him if you get a really good offer for depth.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 2:25 pm
by TOO
Just something to think about when Vogel was speaking about Ayton.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 2:38 pm
by JeremyG
Gambo just said about Vogel: “He has made it known that he wants Deandre Ayton to stay.” He is “really pushing” for him to stay. Says Vogel "loves him" and thinks he can do great things with him.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 2:54 pm
by Shabazz
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 2:38 pm
Gambo just said about Vogel: “He has made it known that he wants Deandre Ayton to stay.” He is “really pushing” for him to stay. Says Vogel "loves him" and thinks he can do great things with him.
How does Vogel feel about our 5th starter, Mop with Googley Eyes attached?
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:01 pm
by JeremyG
I just transcribed some of Gambo’s comments, as follows:
“It’s most likely they keep Deandre Ayton. […] Is there a scenario in which they would trade him? Yeah, but they would have to be blown away with an offer of players that can be a part of their rotation. […] I don’t know that there is a deal like that to be had. […] I had a bunch of conversations late last night, into the morning today. One of the things that works in favor of Deandre Ayton staying is that Frank Vogel loves him, loves him. […] He needs a center like that in his system. […] Now how much say he has, I’m not a hundred percent sure, I don’t know that. But Frank Vogel wants them to keep Deandre Ayton. He has made it known that he wants Deandre Ayton to stay. That there’s a lot of upside there and ‘I can get it out of him. There’s a lot of upside. Let me coach this kid, watch what will happen to him.’ So there’s a belief that part of the reason that he may end up staying is because Vogel is really pushing for Deandre Ayton to stay. Really likes him.”
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:12 pm
by INFORMER
I love how "blown away by an offer" is the same thing as "a really good offer for depth."
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:15 pm
by JeremyG
This is now my favorite head coaching hire ever.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:17 pm
by INFORMER
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 1:15 pm
INFORMER wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 12:26 pm
Jeremy, you've been dismissive of trades for depth. And trading for depth has been what the vast majority of us have wanted to do. Trading for depth doesn't mean upgrading the center position. Trading for depth doesn't mean getting a star. Don't move the goal post.
You’re misquoting me.
I'm not because I didn't quote you. I said you've been dismissive of trading Ayton for depth. And you have been. You can play a game of semantics now that the Gospel of Gambo has stated the Suns could trade him for a really good offer of depth, but it really doesn't change the position you've made clear the last several weeks.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:20 pm
by Kryptonic
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:01 pm
I just transcribed some of Gambo’s comments, as follows:
“It’s most likely they keep Deandre Ayton. […] Is there a scenario in which they would trade him? Yeah, but they would have to be blown away with an offer of players that can be a part of their rotation. […] I don’t know that there is a deal like that to be had. […] I had a bunch of conversations late last night, into the morning today. One of the things that works in favor of Deandre Ayton staying is that Frank Vogel loves him, loves him. […] He needs a center like that in his system. […] Now how much say he has, I’m not a hundred percent sure, I don’t know that. But Frank Vogel wants them to keep Deandre Ayton. He has made it known that he wants Deandre Ayton to stay. That there’s a lot of upside there and ‘I can get it out of him. There’s a lot of upside. Let me coach this kid, watch what will happen to him.’ So there’s a belief that part of the reason that he may end up staying is because Vogel is really pushing for Deandre Ayton to stay. Really likes him.”
Cool…. Then frank vogel looks to his bench and sees nothing there. So having a 4th offensive option is far more important than depth? We have more depth on our coaching staff than our players lol.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:23 pm
by JeremyG
Kryptonic wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:20 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:01 pm
I just transcribed some of Gambo’s comments, as follows:
“It’s most likely they keep Deandre Ayton. […] Is there a scenario in which they would trade him? Yeah, but they would have to be blown away with an offer of players that can be a part of their rotation. […] I don’t know that there is a deal like that to be had. […] I had a bunch of conversations late last night, into the morning today. One of the things that works in favor of Deandre Ayton staying is that Frank Vogel loves him, loves him. […] He needs a center like that in his system. […] Now how much say he has, I’m not a hundred percent sure, I don’t know that. But Frank Vogel wants them to keep Deandre Ayton. He has made it known that he wants Deandre Ayton to stay. That there’s a lot of upside there and ‘I can get it out of him. There’s a lot of upside. Let me coach this kid, watch what will happen to him.’ So there’s a belief that part of the reason that he may end up staying is because Vogel is really pushing for Deandre Ayton to stay. Really likes him.”
Cool…. Then frank vogel looks to his bench and sees nothing there. So having a 4th offensive option is far more important than depth? We have more depth on our coaching staff than our players lol.
There are veterans who want to sign here for the minimum (Suns likely know specific names through back channels already). There are also rumors that they're going to be overpaying their own free agents to use them as trade chips. They also have a $5M trade exception. They also have a $6.5M expiring contract (Cam Payne).
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:37 pm
by ShelC
If Vogel has Beal, Book and KD but needs DA for his system then we definitely hired the wrong guy. Sounds like a lot of spin from Gambo on behalf of the org to get fans excited about Vogel coaching DA - who, as far as we know, hasn't been around DA more than on the opposing sidelines.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:40 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
I can't wait for Ayton to loaf around in transition or miss a bunny over a shooting guard under the rim just to see the look on Vogel's face.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:42 pm
by ShelC
It'll be Vogel's fault tho.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 4:38 pm
by 1tinsoldier
personally, even though Ayton shoots a good percentage from 10 to 12 feet i'd rather have an aggressive center who plays like one -- so i'd be happy to be rid of him -- BUT i do NOT want to sell low!
his performance has been swinging for years and he's all we've got to bargain with for years
it makes sense to let Vogel have a crack at him and raise his stock
the risk is that with our 3 superstars being shoot first players, Ayton never shines
but his Denver series was so disappointing it's hard to believe his stock getting worse
so, i'm hoping for no trade until the season gets going
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2023 6:21 am
by Mori Chu
The part of this that I'm going to really enjoy is when we keep Ayton and start the '23-24 season and he has a mediocre first 3-4 games under Vogel, watching JeremyG quickly turn on Vogel and decide that he's holding Ayton back (just like that blasted Monty!) and push for us to fire him.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2023 6:48 am
by Split T
We’re playing a dangerous game…if Ayton isn’t awesome his trade value will plummet(if it hasn’t already). I don’t know what the offers for him are right now, but if the rumored Randle and 2 1sts offer was real, he still has value.
I don’t want Randle on this current team, but if other teams have made similar offers value wise, we should seriously consider them.
I’m still holding out hope Indiana or Orlando want him. Maybe Atlanta or NY.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2023 6:53 am
by ShelC
I don't think there's a lot of interest and those rumored deals were mostly BS. Maybe we can pull Capela but I don't know why the Hawks do it. A deal with Portland for Nurk might be possible if they think it'll move the needle with Dame but we'd be worse defensively.
I don't think the Randle deal was out there and he'd be a bad fit here.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2023 7:59 am
by Vladimir_Taltos
A 7', 250# center was 78th....78th...in the league in FTAs. You could put a 7' potted plant on a set of caster wheels on the floor, wheeled about by the water boy, and the plant would place higher for FTAs. To be that big and place that low means you don't give a flying rats arse how aggressive you're playing, you don't want to split a nail. Barkley for whatever his faults had heart...that spirit is missing in any real big on this team Bucks had it...Nuggets had it...they won...we didn't, we lost. It...matters.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2023 8:06 am
by Split T
ShelC wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2023 6:53 am
I don't think there's a lot of interest and those rumored deals were mostly BS. Maybe we can pull Capela but I don't know why the Hawks do it. A deal with Portland for Nurk might be possible if they think it'll move the needle with Dame but we'd be worse defensively.
I don't think the Randle deal was out there and he'd be a bad fit here.
Why don’t you think the Randle deal was out there? It was a report from a New York guy