Phx-Suns.Net

specialsauce wrote:Oh, Bender looked GREAT. I am really happy about his play the last few weeks.

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2017 was a PG heavy draft. Should've taken one and figured the rest out.

specialsauce wrote:Len blows again.

Josh Jackson is now shooting under 38% from the field and is at 26% from 3. I knew his outside shooting would be suspect, but dude can’t seem to hit from ANYWHERE. He is worthless as a perimeter player right now, defensive specialists are the NBA of yesteryear, if you have no offense get off the court.

And what happens if he has a couple good games in a row and he's shooting .42/.35 again? You should take your own advice and not jump to conclusions after 14 games and realize that rookies don't come into the league as stars.

carey wrote:

Nodack wrote:Sounds like we know what we will be drafting next year.

This is not a particularly strong PG class from what I've read. Someone can always surprise. I guess Sexton is the best of the bunch and he's a mid to late 1st round pick.

Unless you consider Doncic a PG. I don't have much interest in Sexton or Duvall. Lonnie Walker isn't really a PG, but he's the best guard prospect in my opinion.

He’s never been considered a good shooter. This isn’t Markelle Fultz just going through a slump/injured. This is what his reputation was coming into the league. His shot mechanics are awful. His shot selection is equally bad. I don’t see a scenario where he drastically improves. Do I expect him to shoot 37 and 26% for his career or even the rest of the season? No, I’m sure that will average out. But even if he shoots 42% overall from the field for a SF to me that is not good at all.

Kawhi Leonard shot 49% from the field his rookie year. He was on a much better team with players that could set him up so I don’t expect JJ to be that high but I’d like him at least at 46%. Yes, coming into the league the comparisons were there. Yes, they may have been unfair, but when you pass on trading him for Kyrie Irving and you select him 4th overall, you have set the expectation.

specialsauce wrote:He’s never been considered a good shooter. This isn’t Markelle Fultz just going through a slump/injured. This is what his reputation was coming into the league. His shot mechanics are awful. His shot selection is equally bad. I don’t see a scenario where he drastically improves. Do I expect him to shoot 37 and 26% for his career or even the rest of the season? No, I’m sure that will average out. But even if he shoots 42% overall from the field for a SF to me that is not good at all.

He actually shot fine in college. His reputation is based on his mechanics, not results. I do think his shot selection has been poor, but that is probably because we allow him to take whatever shot he wants. We want him to be agressive and learn through his mistakes. Kinda like Booker in the last half of his rookie year.

carey wrote:

Nodack wrote:Sounds like we know what we will be drafting next year.

This is not a particularly strong PG class from what I've read. Someone can always surprise. I guess Sexton is the best of the bunch and he's a mid to late 1st round pick.

Sexton is a shoot first guy who has never really played as a PG yet. Very athletic, but still has to show that he can actually run an offense.

This draft class seems to have a lot of very good small forwards.

Split T wrote:

specialsauce wrote:He’s never been considered a good shooter. This isn’t Markelle Fultz just going through a slump/injured. This is what his reputation was coming into the league. His shot mechanics are awful. His shot selection is equally bad. I don’t see a scenario where he drastically improves. Do I expect him to shoot 37 and 26% for his career or even the rest of the season? No, I’m sure that will average out. But even if he shoots 42% overall from the field for a SF to me that is not good at all.

He actually shot fine in college. His reputation is based on his mechanics, not results. I do think his shot selection has been poor, but that is probably because we allow him to take whatever shot he wants. We want him to be agressive and learn through his mistakes. Kinda like Booker in the last half of his rookie year.

To quote ShelC:

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:46 am
I just fear Jackson is the type of swing who got his offense off in college against lesser talented players, gets to the league and sees his offense regress because the players are better. Everyone wanted to build him up as the next Kawhi, but I see him more along the lines of MKG, Stanley Johnson, Justise Winslow, Kelly Oubre. Not terrible, but not the best talent and not really a game changer. Best case would be Otto Porter, but even Otto had a jumper coming out of college and while he's a nice piece for Washington, I wouldn't call him irreplaceable.

specialsauce wrote:Kawhi Leonard shot 49% from the field his rookie year. He was on a much better team with players that could set him up so I don’t expect JJ to be that high but I’d like him at least at 46%. Yes, coming into the league the comparisons were there. Yes, they may have been unfair, but when you pass on trading him for Kyrie Irving and you select him 4th overall, you have set the expectation.

The Kawhi comparisons are completely unfair. And regardless of who we didn't trade him for and where we picked him, its not fair to expect a Kawhi like season. Kawhi vastly surpassed his own expectations.

Sure they’re fair. We drafted him to be a franchise small forward. Kawhi is what a franchise small forward looks like. We didn’t draft him to be average.

specialsauce wrote:

Split T wrote:

specialsauce wrote:He’s never been considered a good shooter. This isn’t Markelle Fultz just going through a slump/injured. This is what his reputation was coming into the league. His shot mechanics are awful. His shot selection is equally bad. I don’t see a scenario where he drastically improves. Do I expect him to shoot 37 and 26% for his career or even the rest of the season? No, I’m sure that will average out. But even if he shoots 42% overall from the field for a SF to me that is not good at all.

He actually shot fine in college. His reputation is based on his mechanics, not results. I do think his shot selection has been poor, but that is probably because we allow him to take whatever shot he wants. We want him to be agressive and learn through his mistakes. Kinda like Booker in the last half of his rookie year.

To quote ShelC:

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:46 am
I just fear Jackson is the type of swing who got his offense off in college against lesser talented players, gets to the league and sees his offense regress because the players are better. Everyone wanted to build him up as the next Kawhi, but I see him more along the lines of MKG, Stanley Johnson, Justise Winslow, Kelly Oubre. Not terrible, but not the best talent and not really a game changer. Best case would be Otto Porter, but even Otto had a jumper coming out of college and while he's a nice piece for Washington, I wouldn't call him irreplaceable.

Maybe your expectations are just too high. No one who actually knew anything thought he was going to be Kawhi. And we didn't draft him to be an offensive superstar. You gotta think more Andre igoudala. An athletic, multi positional defender, who can become a secondary scorer and create for others.

specialsauce wrote:Sure they’re fair. We drafted him to be a franchise small forward. Kawhi is what a franchise small forward looks like. We didn’t draft him to be average.

By those standards, Bender is a failure unless he becomes Giannis.

Overall, yes. But I don’t fault the Suns on that one because there wasn’t anyone else to take at that spot.

Last year’s draft had the hype of the Lebron draft, and by that same account if Ball doesn’t become a franchise PG, he is a bust IMO. Doesn’t mean they won’t be serviceable players but their careers will be looked at as disappointing to me. Andre Iguodala is not who I was looking to draft at 4, not when the value was set at Kyrie Irving level. If you pass on acquiring a superstar to draft a particular player, that player better meet that same level. We also had the ability to draft Fox, Smith Jr, Ntilikina, Markkanen, etc. lots of talent in this draft. If these players end up as all stars and Jackson ends up as a decent starting SF, he’s a bust for us.

Nobody is building a team around AI. Suns hyped this up as our future is Booker and Jackson. You say that AND you pass on a superstar, he better be a cornerstone player.

I think you put too much stock in this draft as well. Fultz was the only guy I considered a future regular all star. This draft was very deep through about 13 guys, but deep with above average starters and border line all stars, not mvp candidates. Next year's draft has the potential super stars and mvp candidates. I expect Jackson to make an all star game or two at the least, but hopefully it's more like 4 or 5. I'm hoping for a Shawn Marion like career.

carey wrote:

Nodack wrote:Sounds like we know what we will be drafting next year.

This is not a particularly strong PG class from what I've read. Someone can always surprise. I guess Sexton is the best of the bunch and he's a mid to late 1st round pick.

We're getting a big with our first pick. (BTW, Doncic counts as big in my book.) This is a front court dominated draft. It would be cool to get a good PG with our second pick though.

Split T wrote:I think you put too much stock in this draft as well. Fultz was the only guy I considered a future regular all star. This draft was very deep through about 13 guys, but deep with above average starters and border line all stars, not mvp candidates. Next year's draft has the potential super stars and mvp candidates. I expect Jackson to make an all star game or two at the least, but hopefully it's more like 4 or 5. I'm hoping for a Shawn Marion like career.

Time will tell. Agree it’s early, but I’m watching game to game and so far am pulling my hair out most nights watching these guys. I do wonder what Jackson would look like playing for a more disciplined team like the Spurs.

Superbone wrote:

carey wrote:

Nodack wrote:Sounds like we know what we will be drafting next year.

This is not a particularly strong PG class from what I've read. Someone can always surprise. I guess Sexton is the best of the bunch and he's a mid to late 1st round pick.

We're getting a big with our first pick. (BTW, Doncic counts as big in my book.) This is a front court dominated draft. It would be cool to get a good PG with our second pick though.

Right now, we've got something like the 5, 10, and 14, plus 3 second rounders. So there's room to pick up a PG. But I also wouldn't mind getting a more mature guy to run the show while the young talent develops.

That Bender turnaround jumper was a thing of beauty. If he could do that regularly, watch out!