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Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:42 am
by carey
azsportsfan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:20 am
Both NBL teams are "good" (great in their league). However, the Jazz are in their 4th year of their current system and are introducing one new player to the roster - off the deep bench. They have established veterans, the reigning DPOY, and a ROY candidate.
The Suns are in the first year of their system, are introducing 3 players to the starting lineup, and are missing their best player and scorer. And are quite young. Are the situations really comparable other than both being NBA teams playing NBL teams?
If you want to be dismayed, or humored, or whatever, go ahead.
What's more annoying is that Kellan knows all that.
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:58 am
by Xylus
All Kellan is implying is that we should have had greater separation from the Breakers. He's not comparing us to the Jazz.
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:06 am
by Xylus
I'm thrilled to see Ayton performing well, even if the competition hasn't been elite. I was Team Ayton going into the draft, but his Summer League performance forced me to question if we had made the wrong choice. He seems so much more confident and in control now, clearly absorbing what Igor's throwing at him.
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:14 am
by Mori Chu
With how completely crappy all our PGs are right now, I really don't understand why we let Ulis walk away. He was a great floor general. He found guys, made the right passes. I think Ulis and Ayton would have been a great pairing. And we know Ulis and Booker like playing together. And he wanted to stay here. What's the deal? Do we really think scrubs like Harrison and Canaan are better? I seriously doubt it.
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:44 am
by Indy
Xylus wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:58 am
All Kellan is implying is that we should have had greater separation from the Breakers. He's not comparing us to the Jazz.
Well, I think he is. But that is fine. I don't think it is out of line to say that we are quite a ways behind the Jazz in team development. We are. I would expect them to be a top 5 team in the West this year. If we don't find a way to run our offense (either with a good PG rotation, or finding a good way to do that with our current guys), we will be lucky to be 10th or 11th in the West. Going from 30-35 wins to 45-50 wins is a huge leap.
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:47 am
by Indy
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:14 am
With how completely crappy all our PGs are right now, I really don't understand why we let Ulis walk away. He was a great floor general. He found guys, made the right passes. I think Ulis and Ayton would have been a great pairing. And we know Ulis and Booker like playing together. And he wanted to stay here. What's the deal? Do we really think scrubs like Harrison and Canaan are better? I seriously doubt it.
I would rather have Shaq than Ulis. We are bad enough of defense when we play 5 on 5, much less 4 on 5. And his shooting was awful too. He had the lowest TS% of anyone in the regular rotation last year, and he shot below 29% from 3.
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:12 am
by In2ition
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:47 am
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:14 am
With how completely crappy all our PGs are right now, I really don't understand why we let Ulis walk away. He was a great floor general. He found guys, made the right passes. I think Ulis and Ayton would have been a great pairing. And we know Ulis and Booker like playing together. And he wanted to stay here. What's the deal? Do we really think scrubs like Harrison and Canaan are better? I seriously doubt it.
I would rather have Shaq than Ulis. We are bad enough of defense when we play 5 on 5, much less 4 on 5. And his shooting was awful too. He had the lowest TS% of anyone in the regular rotation last year, and he shot below 29% from 3.
I agree. For all the good that Ulis brings, he also brings a lot of bad. I just want a competent pg right now, and I'm willing to make the trade.
Here are the assets I have available: Bender(promise or expiring contract), Arthur(non-guaranteed contract), Daniels(expiring contract), MIL pick, Harrison(I think non-guaranteed contract), Canaan(non-guaranteed contract), 2nd round picks, protected '19 pick.
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:14 am
by In2ition
Superbone wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:46 pm
In2ition wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:15 pm
I also wanted to shout out the new floor. Seen that they finally fixed that floor, which was embarrassing last year.
What did they do? I didn't even notice it.
Do you remember them having the 50 years symbol at center court? They also had some discolored wood floor pieces that looked very sketch last year near it.
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:20 am
by Shabazz
Superbone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:42 am
Shabazz wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:48 am
Ayton is a f*** stud.
I forget. Were you team Doncic or team Ayton before the draft? I am very pleased how well Ayton has already progressed since college and summer league.
Doncic. But Ayton was number 2 for me and by the time the draft rolled around it was more like 55/45 in favor of Luka I was OK with drafting Ayton.
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:31 am
by ShelC
I think his size was definitely a factor. There's only so much he can make up for with IQ and he wasn't a knockdown shooter either. Also, and this is just speculation, maybe the FO didn't like the Ulis and Booker being so close?
Either way, we need a competent guard soon. It'll make the game that much easier on everyone. We need PnR with Ayton, we need to feed him in the post and we need to get shooters open. The last thing I want is for us to tread water with band-aids at PG or just rotating bad fits and wasting Ayton's early years the way we have with Booker.
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:55 am
by In2ition
ShelC wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:31 am
I think his size was definitely a factor. There's only so much he can make up for with IQ and he wasn't a knockdown shooter either. Also, and this is just speculation, maybe the FO didn't like the Ulis and Booker being so close?
Either way, we need a competent guard soon. It'll make the game that much easier on everyone. We need PnR with Ayton, we need to feed him in the post and we need to get shooters open. The last thing I want is for us to tread water with band-aids at PG or just rotating bad fits and wasting Ayton's early years the way we have with Booker.
It was so obvious that the last thing that the Breakers wanted was for the Suns to feed Ayton. They just had no answer for him, other than bad passes by Shaq to the post or if he didn't go strong on his little jump hook and left it short. It was amazing that the Suns stopped trying to get him the ball, but maybe that's what I expected when Bender came in(even though I'm not saying it was Bender's fault for not passing him the ball, no one did).
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:57 am
by ShelC
The one thing Igor and the coaches should be teaching today is the entry pass. YOU CAN'T MAKE AN ENTRY PASS TO A BIG FROM THE TOP OF THE KEY. Dribble or pass to the wing, get him on the block, and get a good angle to throw it in. An entry pass from the top of the key is probably the worst pass you can make to a big.
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:06 am
by In2ition
ShelC wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:57 am
The one thing Igor and the coaches should be teaching today is the entry pass.
YOU CAN'T MAKE AN ENTRY PASS TO A BIG FROM THE TOP OF THE KEY. Dribble or pass to the wing, get him on the block, and get a good angle to throw it in. An entry pass from the top of the key is probably the worst pass you can make to a big.
That's pretty simplistic and feels like something you tell a 13 yr old to keep him from trying something tough and to cut down on turnovers as the post player doesn't know how to make himself available for an entry pass there. If the big is posting on the block, then I agree with you. But if they flash to the middle or seal the fronting defender, you definitely can make the entry pass, but it's not the best place to pass from.
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:06 am
by OE32
ShelC wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:31 am
I think his size was definitely a factor. There's only so much he can make up for with IQ and he wasn't a knockdown shooter either. Also, and this is just speculation, maybe the FO didn't like the Ulis and Booker being so close?
Either way, we need a competent guard soon. It'll make the game that much easier on everyone. We need PnR with Ayton, we need to feed him in the post and we need to get shooters open. The last thing I want is for us to tread water with band-aids at PG or just rotating bad fits and wasting Ayton's early years the way we have with Booker.
I don't think this is a real concern beyond this season. Tons of PGs will be available this summer, and only so many teams are in need of one. To the extent this problem (and Jackson, Bridges, Anderson and Bender disappointing) tanks this season, it should be the last one.
I really thought we were ready to take a step this year. But this team looking like it does, we won't be winning games any time soon.
I can't believe Mikal looks so raw. I can't believe Bender looks WORSE than last season so far. I can't believe JJ is still playing so reckless.
Maybe Zion is in our future, after all. That would be nuts.
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:22 am
by Split T
Ulis was significantly worse than Canaan and Shaq last year. Ulis might have been the worst player in the NBA getting regular minutes. We'd be in the same mess with him on the roster.
I do think we need a trade. I'd be willing to take on Teague or Dragic as long as we can get close on 2019 salaries. I'm thinking Warren + Bender. They combine to cost us just under 17 million next season. I think both Teague and Dragic are at 19 million next year.
Neither Teague or Dragic are the future for us, but they would be good 2 year vets to give Melton and Okobo time to develop.
Teague/Canaan/Okobo
Booker/Harrison/Melton
Jackson/Bridges/Reed
Ariza/Anderson/Arthur
Ayton/Chandler/Holmes
Probably not a playoff team, but only because the west is crazy deep. That's a good team and I'd hope Okobo/Melton eventually take Canaan/Harrison spots in the rotation. We could potentially use Arthur in this scenario as a backup 4.
If Anderson is good and we want to keep him, we could still have 15ish million in space next summer. If he blows, we waive and stretch him and get 30+ million in space.
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:29 am
by OE32
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:22 am
Ulis was significantly worse than Canaan and Shaq last year. Ulis might have been the worst player in the NBA getting regular minutes. We'd be in the same mess with him on the roster.
I do think we need a trade. I'd be willing to take on Teague or Dragic as long as we can get close on 2019 salaries. I'm thinking Warren + Bender. They combine to cost us just under 17 million next season. I think both Teague and Dragic are at 19 million next year.
Neither Teague or Dragic are the future for us, but they would be good 2 year vets to give Melton and Okobo time to develop.
Teague/Canaan/Okobo
Booker/Harrison/Melton
Jackson/Bridges/Reed
Ariza/Anderson/Arthur
Ayton/Chandler/Holmes
Probably not a playoff team, but only because the west is crazy deep. That's a good team and I'd hope Okobo/Melton eventually take Canaan/Harrison spots in the rotation. We could potentially use Arthur in this scenario as a backup 4.
If Anderson is good and we want to keep him, we could still have 15ish million in space next summer. If he blows, we waive and stretch him and get 30+ million in space.
No way do I trade Warren - especially not for Teague.
I think we'd be wise to preserve our cap space for next season, and Teague hurts us there. If things don't change pretty quickly, Dragan's going to get Hezonja'd. Stretch Anderson and you get to $40 million in space. That should net you a PG, and maybe a PF as well (if you don't fill that spot with Zion, or re-sign Ariza).
How embarrassing is it when a rookie comes in and makes the rest of your roster look like trash?
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:33 am
by Cap
OE32 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:29 am
How embarrassing is it when a rookie comes in and makes the rest of your roster look like trash?
First of all, he’s one of the strongest prospects to come along in years. Second, we’re still playing without Booker.
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:41 am
by In2ition
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:22 am
Ulis was significantly worse than Canaan and Shaq last year. Ulis might have been the worst player in the NBA getting regular minutes. We'd be in the same mess with him on the roster.
I do think we need a trade. I'd be willing to take on Teague or Dragic as long as we can get close on 2019 salaries. I'm thinking Warren + Bender. They combine to cost us just under 17 million next season. I think both Teague and Dragic are at 19 million next year.
Neither Teague or Dragic are the future for us, but they would be good 2 year vets to give Melton and Okobo time to develop.
Teague/Canaan/Okobo
Booker/Harrison/Melton
Jackson/Bridges/Reed
Ariza/Anderson/Arthur
Ayton/Chandler/Holmes
Probably not a playoff team, but only because the west is crazy deep. That's a good team and I'd hope Okobo/Melton eventually take Canaan/Harrison spots in the rotation. We could potentially use Arthur in this scenario as a backup 4.
If Anderson is good and we want to keep him, we could still have 15ish million in space next summer. If he blows, we waive and stretch him and get 30+ million in space.
Trade Arthur, his non-guaranteed contract is golden in this deal. This is where I am too. I think it's so much better to bring on a Teague or Dragic, even at their salary, and you could still address pf in free agency with a TON of money available next year.
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:50 am
by OE32
In2ition wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:41 am
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:22 am
Ulis was significantly worse than Canaan and Shaq last year. Ulis might have been the worst player in the NBA getting regular minutes. We'd be in the same mess with him on the roster.
I do think we need a trade. I'd be willing to take on Teague or Dragic as long as we can get close on 2019 salaries. I'm thinking Warren + Bender. They combine to cost us just under 17 million next season. I think both Teague and Dragic are at 19 million next year.
Neither Teague or Dragic are the future for us, but they would be good 2 year vets to give Melton and Okobo time to develop.
Teague/Canaan/Okobo
Booker/Harrison/Melton
Jackson/Bridges/Reed
Ariza/Anderson/Arthur
Ayton/Chandler/Holmes
Probably not a playoff team, but only because the west is crazy deep. That's a good team and I'd hope Okobo/Melton eventually take Canaan/Harrison spots in the rotation. We could potentially use Arthur in this scenario as a backup 4.
If Anderson is good and we want to keep him, we could still have 15ish million in space next summer. If he blows, we waive and stretch him and get 30+ million in space.
Trade Arthur, his non-guaranteed contract is golden in this deal. This is where I am too. I think it's so much better to bring on a Teague or Dragic, even at their salary, and you could still address pf in free agency with a TON of money available next year.
Dragic is just so much better than Teague. I'm not interested in foreclosing the acquisition of a quality PG next summer by acquiring a mediocre, overpaid stop gap like Teague.
Re: Game Day (Preseason): Breakers (0-0) @ Suns (0-1), Wed 10/03/18
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:53 am
by In2ition
OE32 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:50 am
In2ition wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:41 am
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:22 am
Ulis was significantly worse than Canaan and Shaq last year. Ulis might have been the worst player in the NBA getting regular minutes. We'd be in the same mess with him on the roster.
I do think we need a trade. I'd be willing to take on Teague or Dragic as long as we can get close on 2019 salaries. I'm thinking Warren + Bender. They combine to cost us just under 17 million next season. I think both Teague and Dragic are at 19 million next year.
Neither Teague or Dragic are the future for us, but they would be good 2 year vets to give Melton and Okobo time to develop.
Teague/Canaan/Okobo
Booker/Harrison/Melton
Jackson/Bridges/Reed
Ariza/Anderson/Arthur
Ayton/Chandler/Holmes
Probably not a playoff team, but only because the west is crazy deep. That's a good team and I'd hope Okobo/Melton eventually take Canaan/Harrison spots in the rotation. We could potentially use Arthur in this scenario as a backup 4.
If Anderson is good and we want to keep him, we could still have 15ish million in space next summer. If he blows, we waive and stretch him and get 30+ million in space.
Trade Arthur, his non-guaranteed contract is golden in this deal. This is where I am too. I think it's so much better to bring on a Teague or Dragic, even at their salary, and you could still address pf in free agency with a TON of money available next year.
Dragic is just so much better than Teague. I'm not interested in foreclosing the acquisition of a quality PG next summer by acquiring a mediocre, overpaid stop gap like Teague.
Idk, Teague's numbers are pretty good, he's a better passer even with Tibs as coach and he's younger. Compare their numbers. He was really good in Atlanta. I prefer Dragic, but I'm not going to scoff at Teague.