Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:43 am
by In2ition
I noticed couple things that the Spurs do consistently that I think the Suns could learn to do.
1. Ayton concedes offensive rebounds way too early. There are times when he could be in there fighting for it, but if he doesn't see any other Suns in there, he might start running back before the shot even hits the rim. You didn't see the Spurs doing this, and they got a bunch of rebounds where they were just in the right spot and fighting for the offensive board, whereas we would have just conceded the rebound to the Spurs in the same circumstance. With this, they will try to disrupt the rebounder from making the outlet pass just a little, and this will help the defense to get back in place.
2. I also saw that whenever the Spurs scored and the Suns had to take it out, they usually pressured the guy who would be the first pass to when the player is taking it out. This also slowed down the Suns and just took enough off the shot clock so that they didn't have to play defense for the full 24 seconds pretty much every possession. There were a few times for the Suns that they played really good defense for about 23 seconds and if they used this philosophy, they could probably shorten those defense possessions to about 20 seconds or maybe less. It might make a difference in only 1 or 2 possessions per game, but that could be a big difference in the long run.
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:56 am
by ShelC
Ayton definitely needs to learn to finish plays. If he doesn't get the board on either end, he tends to stand and watch.
Also wanted to mention something else I've noticed - when the other teams scores, our guys seem to sulk and look at each other rather than just grabbing the ball and inbounding it to start the possession. There's always a lag there and it allows the other team to get back and get the defense set. I'm not asking for 7SOL but we gotta speed things up.
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Ayton definitely needs to learn to finish plays. If he doesn't get the board on either end, he tends to stand and watch.
Also wanted to mention something else I've noticed - when the other teams scores, our guys seem to sulk and look at each other rather than just grabbing the ball and inbounding it to start the possession. There's always a lag there and it allows the other team to get back and get the defense set. I'm not asking for 7SOL but we gotta speed things up.
I agree, and maybe this is circular, but... when you are already down by 15 (or 30), it is really hard to show hustle.
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Josh might have had his best game of his career. I realize he had some higher point totals and much higher minutes near the end of last season, but he did exactly what was needed.
Also, big props to Igor for not getting caught up in the moment and deciding to play Josh a ton in the 2nd half. He really needs to learn to play within himself, and playing him 30 minutes last night would (likely) have led to him doing something stupid.
I agree here which might not be a surprised coming from me re: anything positive Josh
to your point though , the reason although also disappointed in his season so far that I wasn't throwing the kid under the bus yet is cause I wasn't seeing any negative behaviour. yea I like Josh but if you told me Igor would give him less than 10mins in like what 4 of 5 games and that he wouldn't start to seem disengaged or be showing frustration on the bench when subbed I would have hesitated taking that bet.
I didn't know he idolized Crawford so his signing might end up really helping Josh. we see what kind of guy Crawford is so his message to him to be patient and just keep working seems to be getting through so I just think positive results will eventually follow the positive attitude.
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Ayton definitely needs to learn to finish plays. If he doesn't get the board on either end, he tends to stand and watch.
Also wanted to mention something else I've noticed - when the other teams scores, our guys seem to sulk and look at each other rather than just grabbing the ball and inbounding it to start the possession. There's always a lag there and it allows the other team to get back and get the defense set. I'm not asking for 7SOL but we gotta speed things up.
yea they kinda like do the corner backs in NFL thing lol , they look around at each other like you were supposed to be there ..... how did that guy get open. hopefully communication continues to improve and there are less breakdowns
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Josh might have had his best game of his career. I realize he had some higher point totals and much higher minutes near the end of last season, but he did exactly what was needed.
Also, big props to Igor for not getting caught up in the moment and deciding to play Josh a ton in the 2nd half. He really needs to learn to play within himself, and playing him 30 minutes last night would (likely) have led to him doing something stupid.
I agree here which might not be a surprised coming from me re: anything positive Josh
to your point though , the reason although also disappointed in his season so far that I wasn't throwing the kid under the bus yet is cause I wasn't seeing any negative behaviour. yea I like Josh but if you told me Igor would give him less than 10mins in like what 4 of 5 games and that he wouldn't start to seem disengaged or be showing frustration on the bench when subbed I would have hesitated taking that bet.
I didn't know he idolized Crawford so his signing might end up really helping Josh. we see what kind of guy Crawford is so his message to him to be patient and just keep working seems to be getting through so I just think positive results will eventually follow the positive attitude.
Nice take and great observation.
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Sadly, I missed most of this one. I like what I'm reading, though, and I tuned in late in the game to hear EJ say we stayed tough and kept fighting when the Spurs had the game close in the 3rd quarter. That's all I care about with this team now. Just keep competing.
From the box score, I see we hit a bunch of jumpers and didn't take many free throws. We won't be good until we can draw fouls and get open shots.
You guys like Mikal? I told you he would be the fan favorite. He loves to play the game, he's tough, he can shoot, he defends, and he gets tose highlight blocks and dunks. I hope he plays for the Suns till he retires.
Ayton is going to draw a lot more fouls if he opts for a dunk over a layup. Granted, he's pretty damn good off the glass, but he's got to start putting opponents in foul trouble.
He's also got to realize that one-on-one in the paint, he's open. When he's in good position, he can score better against a defender than most guys can wide open. He already draws attention. He can keep going at the defense until he brings that second defender.
He also has to go for the dunk as opposed to the lay in close to the basket as a general rule. He got blocked again last night trying to lay the ball in where he could have gone for the dunk and made it or draw the foul. I see one or two of those every game.
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
I noticed couple things that the Spurs do consistently that I think the Suns could learn to do.
1. Ayton concedes offensive rebounds way too early. There are times when he could be in there fighting for it, but if he doesn't see any other Suns in there, he might start running back before the shot even hits the rim. You didn't see the Spurs doing this, and they got a bunch of rebounds where they were just in the right spot and fighting for the offensive board, whereas we would have just conceded the rebound to the Spurs in the same circumstance. With this, they will try to disrupt the rebounder from making the outlet pass just a little, and this will help the defense to get back in place.
2. I also saw that whenever the Spurs scored and the Suns had to take it out, they usually pressured the guy who would be the first pass to when the player is taking it out. This also slowed down the Suns and just took enough off the shot clock so that they didn't have to play defense for the full 24 seconds pretty much every possession. There were a few times for the Suns that they played really good defense for about 23 seconds and if they used this philosophy, they could probably shorten those defense possessions to about 20 seconds or maybe less. It might make a difference in only 1 or 2 possessions per game, but that could be a big difference in the long run.
Good point. I thought Ayton was supposed to be a really good offensive rebounder, but he hasn't been for us.
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Ayton definitely needs to learn to finish plays. If he doesn't get the board on either end, he tends to stand and watch.
Also wanted to mention something else I've noticed - when the other teams scores, our guys seem to sulk and look at each other rather than just grabbing the ball and inbounding it to start the possession. There's always a lag there and it allows the other team to get back and get the defense set. I'm not asking for 7SOL but we gotta speed things up.
There's a lot of the guys talking to each other about who is supposed to do what and where they are supposed to be on both ends of the court. It seems like either they aren't all clear on their responsibilities, or they don't all agree and there are agendas at work.
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:04 pm
by djy2j
Nice win. Glad the guys decided to play hard. Hope it an be seen more than once every 5th game.
Give me Bridges in the starting lineup please.
I think McDo's Ariza signing is starting to look worse than I could have anticipated. Best case we can move him, Bender, and Daniels in December.
I don't see why we even have Daniels if he isn't getting rotation mins and he's not getting garbage mins out of respect. He an Anderson are wasted roster spots right now. I realize we have bigger fish to fry but I see it as a wasted opportunity to find potential in the D League or elsewhere. (Shaq Harrison dropped 16pt 6 reb and 4 stl last night for the Bulls)
Happy Jackson had a good game. Let's see him build on it and recoup some trade value.
Every game i watch i feel more that this team needs a veteran PG who has had success in the NBA. They need leadership more than stats at this point and I don't feel John Wall or Kemba can bring that. Sounds crazy but I think Tony Parker could bring more of the kind of help we are needing.
Read a few of the posts before and I agree that Booker's passing is pretty poor. It's a major weakness for him.
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Sadly, I missed most of this one. I like what I'm reading, though, and I tuned in late in the game to hear EJ say we stayed tough and kept fighting when the Spurs had the game close in the 3rd quarter. That's all I care about with this team now. Just keep competing.
From the box score, I see we hit a bunch of jumpers and didn't take many free throws. We won't be good until we can draw fouls and get open shots.
You guys like Mikal? I told you he would be the fan favorite. He loves to play the game, he's tough, he can shoot, he defends, and he gets tose highlight blocks and dunks. I hope he plays for the Suns till he retires.
Ayton is going to draw a lot more fouls if he opts for a dunk over a layup. Granted, he's pretty damn good off the glass, but he's got to start putting opponents in foul trouble.
He's also got to realize that one-on-one in the paint, he's open. When he's in good position, he can score better against a defender than most guys can wide open. He already draws attention. He can keep going at the defense until he brings that second defender.
He also has to go for the dunk as opposed to the lay in close to the basket as a general rule. He got blocked again last night trying to lay the ball in where he could have gone for the dunk and made it or draw the foul. I see one or two of those every game.
When man-child figures out that he's the biggest guy on the court, skies the limit. I want to see more of aggressive Deandre and not laid back Carribean Deandre.
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:21 pm
by specialsauce
There’s a few times that Ayton has had a guard trying to defend him in the post and he has been totally weak sauce going in on him.
He is fully capable of being a bully and that’s what we need to see from him.
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:22 pm
by TOO
Jackson is such a different player when he plays within the pace of the game and doesn't force up bad shots.
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Jackson is such a different player when he plays within the pace of the game and doesn't force up bad shots.
Yes, he is. He is not Josh Jackson in the rare occasion he has done that, he is actually a different person because that is not the norm but an exception for him.
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Jackson is such a different player when he plays within the pace of the game and doesn't force up bad shots.
Yes, he is. He is not Josh Jackson in the rare occasion he has done that, he is actually a different person because that is not the norm but an exception for him.
Gosh Jackson, accidentally good.
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Jackson is such a different player when he plays within the pace of the game and doesn't force up bad shots.
Yes, he is. He is not Josh Jackson in the rare occasion he has done that, he is actually a different person because that is not the norm but an exception for him.
Gosh Jackson, accidentally good.
we’ve found his new alternate persona
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Jackson is such a different player when he plays within the pace of the game and doesn't force up bad shots.
Yes, he is. He is not Josh Jackson in the rare occasion he has done that, he is actually a different person because that is not the norm but an exception for him.
Gosh Jackson, accidentally good.
we’ve found his new alternate persona
This is the best thing on the site today.
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Did any of you catch that a few of the TOs by Booker, was just him proving a point to the guys on where they are supposed to be on the floor with spacing? He threw some bad passes that went out of bounds and then you would see him yell at the guys. I know most of us were thinking that Booker was being an a-hole, but Jackson said that he was proving a point with those. I know this isn't all of his turnovers, as he lost the ball when trying to create for himself too, but this is kind of interesting. The reporter than asked Booker about it and he admitted that it's true on a few of them.
I'm kind of encouraged about this, if this is actually true. Eventually, the guys will figure it out and be in the right places to score and this won't be a problem. This will also help Booker out and create more room for him to get things done.
Maybe I need to go back and watch all 7 of them again, but I saw mostly him being careless.
The Suns played with an energy that has been missing too often, especially at the start of games. Booker seemed intent on getting other players involved more than carrying the scoring load and finished with a career-best 12 assists. He also had seven turnovers, but Jackson said there was a message being delivered with some of those balls that sailed to places where there was no teammate waiting.
“One of the things he’s really been trying to show a lot of the guys on the team is the right spots to be in,” Jackson said. “Sometimes Devin, he’ll make a pass and it will be a turnover, and he does it to prove a point to a guy sometimes — to show them, ‘Hey, that’s where you’re supposed to be. That’s the open spot.’
“So, I think guys were just clicking. They were in the right spots at the right time. He’s an amazing player, and defenders respect him so much and he’s unselfish. So when he sees open guys, he’s going to get the ball to them.”
Booker didn’t deny that he took a few turnovers to send a message.
“A few times,” he said, with just a hint of a smile. “Just getting on the same page. But you know, it’s just knowing basketball, knowing basketball actions; time, score and possession, personnel. So when I’m bringing the ball up the floor, all of that is going through my head.
“But getting everybody on the same page is what I need to work on, being a leader. I think they saw it (against the Spurs); if you’re in the right spot, I’m going to make sure you get the ball and then we’re all going to be successful and winning games. So just making the right play.”
Booker said Jackson usually does that.
“Josh, being as talented as he is and accepting that role coming off the bench and coming out and performing night in and night out is very important,” Booker said. “I’ve always said since we drafted him, just his instincts for the game are unbelievable. He goes out there and he can defend, he can be that spark scoring if our offense isn’t going.”
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Jackson is such a different player when he plays within the pace of the game and doesn't force up bad shots.
Yes, he is. He is not Josh Jackson in the rare occasion he has done that, he is actually a different person because that is not the norm but an exception for him.
Gosh Jackson, accidentally good.
we’ve found his new alternate persona
This is the best thing on the site today.
mocking my guy but it's cool, it's all good
it's definitely a quality line though lol but only relevant for now, it's a shame it is not gonna age well
Re: Game Day: Spurs (7-5) @ Suns (2-11), Wed 11/14/18
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:27 pm
by bajanguy008
I still think the intentional turnover thing sounds a lil out there but we'll see going forward.
Like I said earlier I'm still concerned about the one hand lefty passes and how he is dealing with getting blitzed on the pick n roll
