Page 9 of 16
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:15 pm
by Split T
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:13 pm
I dunno. Even if we go to the Finals, does a 2-year stint really surpass the 2-time MVP, Nash? I think a title is hard to argue with, but if Paul is only here 2 years and we go to the Finals one of those years and don't win a title, I think Nash is still the GOAT Suns PG. He turned the entire team around and made us one of the best in the league for almost a decade; he won 2 MVPs; he led us on many memorable deep playoff runs; and arguably he/we revitalized the NBA and helped turn it into the pace-and-space, 3-point-heavy league that it is today.
Ya I think he’s gotta stay longer than 2 years...I’m kinda assuming he does as a precursor to this...but probably means it’s a little early to be having this convo.
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:16 pm
by Superbone
Speaking of the all-star game, in case you missed it. I liked this new event:
James Harden Pump Fakes Under 4 Dummies During NBA All-Star Drawing-Fouls Challenge
https://sports.theonion.com/james-harde ... 1846411022
ATLANTA—Pushing back against the faceless foam defenders before pulling up with a wildly flailing turnaround jumper, Brooklyn Nets guard James Harden pump faked under four dummies Sunday night while participating in the NBA All-Star Game drawing-fouls challenge. “Just watching the way he goes down and throws his arms up after driving through the pylons for a layup, he’s the man to beat this year,” said fellow competitor Trae Young, who started howling and grabbed Devin Booker after Harden drew four quick reach-in fouls while navigating through the “tunnel of arms” section of the course. “I thought Luka [Doncic] was the king when he drew 18 fouls in 60 seconds, including that insane flop on a 3-pointer, but nobody’s gonna beat Harden. He can make even incidental contact on a pull-up look like a flagrant foul, and his body control while pleading with the refs is unreal.” At press time Harden had blown all his second-round competitors out of the water and scored three perfect 10s after drawing a foul off the back of a brand-new Jeep Compass.
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:16 pm
by bajanguy008
Watching some of the highlights
Figured they wouldn't match the intensity from last year when the kids from each charity were there cheering on during the quarter hoping to win the donations. It was at least still cool to see the lil guys throwing alleys to each other then Dame n Steph closing the half with those half court jumpers
Stating the obvious but it really is impressive how easy they shoot from that range
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:19 pm
by AmareIsGod
bajanguy008 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:16 pm
Watching some of the highlights
Figured they wouldn't match the intensity from last year when the kids from each charity were there cheering on during the quarter hoping to win the donations. It was at least still cool to see the
lil guys throwing alleys to each other then Dame n Steph closing the half with those half court jumpers
Stating the obvious but it really is impressive how easy they shoot from that range
I'm about 5'9, 170lbs. Naturally, such a feat is easy for me. I can even do it sitting down.
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:45 pm
by Charlie Smithy!
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:09 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:46 am
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:44 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:10 am
That was pretty cool. I'd be really impressed to see Paul dunk off the dribble.
It surprises me how good of shape Paul is in at 35, and will be 36 before the season is over. Not sure how many sub 6 foot guys can dunk at 36.
I'm hoping he has a Nash-like extended career.
This is about the same time Nash dropped off a cliff. I think it was his "year 36" where it was very noticeable.
For what it's worth, it was Nash's age 36 season where we went to the Conference finals against the Lakers in 2010.
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:50 pm
by JeremyG
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:09 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:46 am
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:44 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:10 am
That was pretty cool. I'd be really impressed to see Paul dunk off the dribble.
It surprises me how good of shape Paul is in at 35, and will be 36 before the season is over. Not sure how many sub 6 foot guys can dunk at 36.
I'm hoping he has a Nash-like extended career.
This is about the same time Nash dropped off a cliff. I think it was his "year 36" where it was very noticeable.
He was 38 when he left the Suns and was still playing great.
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:40 pm
by Indy
It was his age 35 season when we went to the conference finals. He was 36 by the time we got there, but the NBA counts their season based on their age when the season starts IINM. Like Paul's age 35 season is this one, even though he turns 36 soon.
And Nash's last mostly injury free season was his age 36 season.
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:43 pm
by Indy
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:15 pm
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:13 pm
I dunno. Even if we go to the Finals, does a 2-year stint really surpass the 2-time MVP, Nash? I think a title is hard to argue with, but if Paul is only here 2 years and we go to the Finals one of those years and don't win a title, I think Nash is still the GOAT Suns PG. He turned the entire team around and made us one of the best in the league for almost a decade; he won 2 MVPs; he led us on many memorable deep playoff runs; and arguably he/we revitalized the NBA and helped turn it into the pace-and-space, 3-point-heavy league that it is today.
Ya I think he’s gotta stay longer than 2 years...I’m kinda assuming he does as a precursor to this...but probably means it’s a little early to be having this convo.
KJ was my favorite player, by far, when I was growing up. But that 93 Finals trip goes to Barkley. KJ missed almost half the season.
And Nash is my favorite all-time Suns right now. And he certainly did some great things for the team. But if Paul takes us to the Finals as our best player, it will be something no other PG in Suns history has done. (AND WE ARE GETTING WAY TOO FAR AHEAD OF OURSELVES WITH FINALS TALK
)
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:14 pm
by Superbone
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:50 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:09 pm
Superbone wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:46 am
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:44 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:10 am
That was pretty cool. I'd be really impressed to see Paul dunk off the dribble.
It surprises me how good of shape Paul is in at 35, and will be 36 before the season is over. Not sure how many sub 6 foot guys can dunk at 36.
I'm hoping he has a Nash-like extended career.
This is about the same time Nash dropped off a cliff. I think it was his "year 36" where it was very noticeable.
He was 38 when he left the Suns and was still playing great.
Thank you!
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:15 pm
by Superbone
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:40 pm
It was his age 35 season when we went to the conference finals. He was 36 by the time we got there, but the NBA counts their season based on their age when the season starts IINM. Like Paul's age 35 season is this one, even though he turns 36 soon.
And Nash's last mostly injury free season was his age 36 season.
He had two nice seasons in Phoenix after that. So no.
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:41 pm
by Furlanfufi
And Nash simply couldn't play after his injury with the lakers. It was not a case of declining, it was a case of falling of a cliff like the Coyote.
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:18 pm
by pickle
KJ is one of the 15 greatest point guards of all time? Damn.
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:23 pm
by Mori Chu
Judge that era's Suns FO as you wish. But trading away Nash for two first-rounders and two second-rounders at that point in his career was a real haul. We didn't get any HoFers with those picks, but it was a solid return. (We ended up drafting Tyler Ennis, Alex Oriakhi who was later used to help trade for Isaiah Thomas, and a trade asset that nabbed us Brandon Knight. Funny how most of the assets were basically used to try to find PGs / guards to replace what we were losing as the Nash era team faded away.
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:50 pm
by Superbone
Nash did fall off a cliff after we dumped him to the Lakers. I love him to death but it made me happy as a Laker hater.
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:38 pm
by Split T
pickle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:18 pm
KJ is one of the 15 greatest point guards of all time? Damn.
I think so. Here’s how he ranks all time in a few catch all stats(amongst pg’s):
BPM: 8th
VORP: 18th
WS: 18th
WS/48: 6th
PER: 9th
So the two more cumulative stats he’s just outside the top 15. The non cumulative ones he’s top 10. So I think I’d put him top 15.
Magic, Curry, Oscar, CP3, Stockton, Isiah, Payton, Kidd, Nash, Lillard...that’s 10. Frazier, Cousy, Billups, Westbrook, Hardaway. Feels like KJ fits in that last group. Am I missing anyone?
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:06 pm
by Wally_West
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:38 pm
pickle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:18 pm
KJ is one of the 15 greatest point guards of all time? Damn.
I think so. Here’s how he ranks all time in a few catch all stats(amongst pg’s):
BPM: 8th
VORP: 18th
WS: 18th
WS/48: 6th
PER: 9th
So the two more cumulative stats he’s just outside the top 15. The non cumulative ones he’s top 10. So I think I’d put him top 15.
Magic, Curry, Oscar, CP3, Stockton, Isiah, Payton, Kidd, Nash, Lillard...that’s 10. Frazier, Cousy, Billups, Westbrook, Hardaway. Feels like KJ fits in that last group.
Am I missing anyone?
Eric Bledsoe
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:29 pm
by Indy
Superbone wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:15 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:40 pm
It was his age 35 season when we went to the conference finals. He was 36 by the time we got there, but the NBA counts their season based on their age when the season starts IINM. Like Paul's age 35 season is this one, even though he turns 36 soon.
And Nash's last mostly injury free season was his age 36 season.
He had two nice seasons in Phoenix after that. So no.
Maybe a nice season for run of the mill guys. Not nice seasons for a back-to-back MVP. I think our awfulness the last decade has let us forget how mediocre those last couple seasons were.
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:52 pm
by JeremyG
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:38 pm
pickle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:18 pm
KJ is one of the 15 greatest point guards of all time? Damn.
I think so. Here’s how he ranks all time in a few catch all stats(amongst pg’s):
BPM: 8th
VORP: 18th
WS: 18th
WS/48: 6th
PER: 9th
So the two more cumulative stats he’s just outside the top 15. The non cumulative ones he’s top 10. So I think I’d put him top 15.
Magic, Curry, Oscar, CP3, Stockton, Isiah, Payton, Kidd, Nash, Lillard...that’s 10. Frazier, Cousy, Billups, Westbrook, Hardaway. Feels like KJ fits in that last group. Am I missing anyone?
Which Hardaway?
Mark Jackson is 4th all time in assists, so maybe add him in there somewhere. I would probably put guys like Archibald, Parker, and Rondo after KJ even though they won championships.
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:56 pm
by Superbone
Wally_West wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:06 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:38 pm
pickle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:18 pm
KJ is one of the 15 greatest point guards of all time? Damn.
I think so. Here’s how he ranks all time in a few catch all stats(amongst pg’s):
BPM: 8th
VORP: 18th
WS: 18th
WS/48: 6th
PER: 9th
So the two more cumulative stats he’s just outside the top 15. The non cumulative ones he’s top 10. So I think I’d put him top 15.
Magic, Curry, Oscar, CP3, Stockton, Isiah, Payton, Kidd, Nash, Lillard...that’s 10. Frazier, Cousy, Billups, Westbrook, Hardaway. Feels like KJ fits in that last group.
Am I missing anyone?
Eric Bledsoe
If I could reach into the screen right now...
Re: Around the League: Week 11 3/1-3/7
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:05 pm
by Split T
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:52 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:38 pm
pickle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:18 pm
KJ is one of the 15 greatest point guards of all time? Damn.
I think so. Here’s how he ranks all time in a few catch all stats(amongst pg’s):
BPM: 8th
VORP: 18th
WS: 18th
WS/48: 6th
PER: 9th
So the two more cumulative stats he’s just outside the top 15. The non cumulative ones he’s top 10. So I think I’d put him top 15.
Magic, Curry, Oscar, CP3, Stockton, Isiah, Payton, Kidd, Nash, Lillard...that’s 10. Frazier, Cousy, Billups, Westbrook, Hardaway. Feels like KJ fits in that last group. Am I missing anyone?
Which Hardaway?
Mark Jackson is 4th all time in assists, so maybe add him in there somewhere. I would probably put guys like Archibald, Parker, and Rondo after KJ even though they won championships.
Tim. Penny was awesome for a couple years...but he really tailed off with injuries and I think actually spent most of his career as a sg.
You could make a case for Parker. I think they’re actually pretty similar players. KJ had better individual stats, but that could also be partially because of the Spurs system. And of course Parker had the 4 championships.
Mark had a bunch of assists, but the rest of his game was kinda lacking. He only made 1 all star team and spent most of his career scoring single digits. I think KJ was pretty solidly ahead of him.
Anyways, I think top 15 is fair for KJ, though maybe a touch high in some minds. Top 20 should cover it. We’ve had 3 top 10 PG and one other top 20 guy.