Basketball reference is terrible with their position designations. They tend to just base it off height. My guess is all the minutes he shared with Xavier Tillman put JJJ at the 5 according to their stats. I’m sure he played minutes at the 5, but his role has generally been next to a 5 at the 4.
It's not hypocritical if JJJ and Ayton are doing very different things on the defensive end. That's why I asked if you watched the game.
It's not like JJJ is playing in a drop every possession and watching the ball bounce all around him. In fact, it's the exact opposite of that role and outcome.
Starting center with a 3 guard lineup, at some point you reach a level where none of these other factors matter. 1 rebound in 15 minutes when your team lost to an inferior opponent partly because of poor rebounding. There's just no other way to justify this as anything other than an atrocious showing.
Watch the second half and tell me about the rebounds you think he missed or was doing something else that diminished the chance the Americans secured the rebound.
Keep in mind these FIBA games are totally different than NBA games when you look at the box score. They're 8 minutes shorter, defenders can stand around the rim as long as they want, and there are fewer fouls and stoppages in general.
Virt is right; your double standard is glaring.
Excuses, excuses, excuses. What happened to “lesser competition”? “Most of these guys can’t even make an NBA roster”?
“defenders can stand around the rim as long as they want”
So he should have tons of blocks and rebounds every game?
“there are fewer fouls”
And yet he’s in foul trouble every game.
And you can’t play great defense sitting on the bench.
My double standard is glaring? That's rich.
What lesser competition are you talking about? All 3 of the USA's last opponents would wipe the floor with the Bahamas, and two of the past three featured Centers who're top 5 in RPG (ahead of Ayton, btw).
Defenders can stand around the rim all they want, so there are a lot more guys down there to battle for a rebound. Not to mention the USA runs a defensive switching scheme that often has JJJ guarding the three point line. The box score doesn't show that so I wouldn't expect you to realize it.
The fouls are a fair complaint, but that's not what we're talking about in the first place. So good job by you?
JJJ was being touted as the best player BY FAR on the USA team prior to the World Cup and in practice. I wonder what happened to that guy?
Ya I never heard that(though I haven’t been following super closely). He had been playing very well until these last two games though. I feel like it’s always been Ant’s team.
Team USA votes Jaren Jackson Jr. as best player in FIBA World Cup training camp
By Joe Vardon
Aug 6, 2023
LAS VEGAS – It was a campaign of action, not words. There were a number of worthy candidates who made their case as the top member of Team USA over four days on the campus of the University of Nevada-Las Vegas, but the end result was a landslide.
By a vote of his peers, Jaren Jackson Jr. was selected the “best,” or “most impressive” or “stand out” player of the now-completed FIBA training camp, according to an informal poll by The Athletic of the entire Team USA roster, Jackson included.
There were a few standouts in what the public was allowed to see of the USA Basketball training camp in Las Vegas. The Pistons’ Cade Cunningham (of the Select Team) stood out on the first day. The Knicks’ Jalen Brunson had his moments.
However, when The Athletic’s Joe Varden asked Team USA members for the camp’s standout, Jaren Jackson Jr. won going away.
I missed that piece. I guess it's fair but that was before they played any exhibition games, so it was just opinions from the coaches and players which can be a bit misleading, IMO.
Basketball reference is terrible with their position designations. They tend to just base it off height. My guess is all the minutes he shared with Xavier Tillman put JJJ at the 5 according to their stats. I’m sure he played minutes at the 5, but his role has generally been next to a 5 at the 4.
And again people are glossing over how he's utilized on the court by Memphis. They just see a "C" next to his name on the box score and assume he's out there with the same responsibilities as Ayton.
It's not hypocritical if JJJ and Ayton are doing very different things on the defensive end. That's why I asked if you watched the game.
It's not like JJJ is playing in a drop every possession and watching the ball bounce all around him. In fact, it's the exact opposite of that role and outcome.
Starting center with a 3 guard lineup, at some point you reach a level where none of these other factors matter. 1 rebound in 15 minutes when your team lost to an inferior opponent partly because of poor rebounding. There's just no other way to justify this as anything other than an atrocious showing.
Watch the second half and tell me about the rebounds you think he missed or was doing something else that diminished the chance the Americans secured the rebound.
Keep in mind these FIBA games are totally different than NBA games when you look at the box score. They're 8 minutes shorter, defenders can stand around the rim as long as they want, and there are fewer fouls and stoppages in general.
Virt is right; your double standard is glaring.
Excuses, excuses, excuses. What happened to “lesser competition”? “Most of these guys can’t even make an NBA roster”?
“defenders can stand around the rim as long as they want”
So he should have tons of blocks and rebounds every game?
“there are fewer fouls”
And yet he’s in foul trouble every game.
And you can’t play great defense sitting on the bench.
My double standard is glaring? That's rich.
What lesser competition are you talking about? All 3 of the USA's last opponents would wipe the floor with the Bahamas, and two of the past three featured Centers who're top 5 in RPG (ahead of Ayton, btw).
And today’s opponent didn’t have a single NBA player on it.
Not to mention the USA runs a defensive switching scheme that often has JJJ guarding the three point line. The box score doesn't show that so I wouldn't expect you to realize it.
And yet for the other dude you never want to hear similar excuses. Oh and nice gratuitous insult thrown in there at the end.
What lesser competition are you talking about? All 3 of the USA's last opponents would wipe the floor with the Bahamas, and two of the past three featured Centers who're top 5 in RPG (ahead of Ayton, btw).
And today’s opponent didn’t have a single NBA player on it.
Not to mention the USA runs a defensive switching scheme that often has JJJ guarding the three point line. The box score doesn't show that so I wouldn't expect you to realize it.
And yet for the other dude you never want to hear similar excuses. Oh and nice gratuitous insult thrown in there at the end.
Pointing out the truth is an insult? I surely wouldn't know how the USA was playing defense if I didn't watch every possession and only checked the box score.
The fouls are a fair complaint, but that's not what we're talking about in the first place. So good job by you?
Lol, I don’t think I’m the only one talking about his fouls.
The whole debate is about who's the better player. Obviously his fouls are a kind of a problem for this team, but it's kind of like complaining about Ayton not dunking the ball. Acknowledge the deficit and use it to evaluate the whole player.
Re: USA Basketball
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 3:40 am
by Flagrant Fowl
An absolutely hectic finish to the Germany v. Latvia game with Germany squeaking out the win. Latvia got a defensive stop down 2 points with under 10 seconds left and Davis Bertans let fly a (bad?) shot from about 26-feet that missed.
Dennis Schroder started 0-12 and finished 4-26. Kudos to the Germans for weathering that slump and especially Mo Wagner who was the energizer bunny for their squad. A really impressive effort from him. This was also the first game for Franz Wagner since turning his ankle in the Germans first game of this tournament. He's playable but clearly lacking the bounce and first step he had before the injury. The Germans play the Americans on Friday with the winner going to the gold medal game.
What a run for Latvia. They were certainly my favorite team to watch in this tournament besides the Americans. My only regret is not putting money on them every game. Artūrs Žagars should get a call from an NBA team. That guy can play at any level and he's still only 23. Here he is carving up and cooking the French last week.
Re: USA Basketball
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 4:40 am
by Split T
Was it In2 who was a big Zagars fan once upon a time?
Re: USA Basketball
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 5:41 am
by Flagrant Fowl
I have no idea, but good for him if he had the lead before this World Cup.
Re: USA Basketball
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 6:01 am
by Flagrant Fowl
There's not a metric for this, but Slovenia is unsurprisingly the team that bitches and moans to the officials the most. Even the Americans aren't this bad and they get called for a fair amount of questionable FIBA nonsense.
JJJ was being touted as the best player BY FAR on the USA team prior to the World Cup and in practice. I wonder what happened to that guy?
Ya I never heard that(though I haven’t been following super closely). He had been playing very well until these last two games though. I feel like it’s always been Ant’s team.
Team USA votes Jaren Jackson Jr. as best player in FIBA World Cup training camp
By Joe Vardon
Aug 6, 2023
LAS VEGAS – It was a campaign of action, not words. There were a number of worthy candidates who made their case as the top member of Team USA over four days on the campus of the University of Nevada-Las Vegas, but the end result was a landslide.
By a vote of his peers, Jaren Jackson Jr. was selected the “best,” or “most impressive” or “stand out” player of the now-completed FIBA training camp, according to an informal poll by The Athletic of the entire Team USA roster, Jackson included.
There were a few standouts in what the public was allowed to see of the USA Basketball training camp in Las Vegas. The Pistons’ Cade Cunningham (of the Select Team) stood out on the first day. The Knicks’ Jalen Brunson had his moments.
However, when The Athletic’s Joe Varden asked Team USA members for the camp’s standout, Jaren Jackson Jr. won going away.
I missed that piece. I guess it's fair but that was before they played any exhibition games, so it was just opinions from the coaches and players which can be a bit misleading, IMO.
Fair enough. Although, who's opinions can not be a bit misleading? I just thought it was funny that he was named the best player, and we've yet to see this player.
I missed that piece. I guess it's fair but that was before they played any exhibition games, so it was just opinions from the coaches and players which can be a bit misleading, IMO.
Fair enough. Although, who's opinions can not be a bit misleading? I just thought it was funny that he was named the best player, and we've yet to see this player.
He's not been anywhere near the best player for the USA.
However, it's a well known tactic to pump up a critical member of the team to boost their moral when no one outside of their bubble has a chance to see them perform. No one is talking about JJJ the same way once these tournament games started, which is telling of their initial statements.
Re: USA Basketball
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:15 am
by bajanguy008
Dillon Brooks was booed from Intros and no surprise he was quite fine being the villain
To his credit he was playing well and obviously letting the fans know it
I'm disappointed in Slovenia. I have a ton of respect for their roster, but they get so caught up in Luka's crybaby antics that it leads me to undervalue their talent and effort. They started playing so much more decisive and cohesive once Luka was ejected.
RJ Barrett showed up for the Canadians tonight. He was assertive and physical, and it set a baseline for the Canadians tempo. SGA was incredible, but he's been the best player in the tournament so what else can be expected?
Buckle your seat belts for a USA v. Canada final...
Re: USA Basketball
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:22 am
by bajanguy008
Switch that to Okogie in a Suns jersey and it was free throws tho
