Game Day: Warriors (5-0) @ Suns (3-3), Sun 11/09/14

[Indy]

This game just proved the Suns really dont know who they are yet. I mean its great that our bench won the game but is that our game plan going forward?

I would say it is absolutely part of our game plan that Thomas and Green will win games for us this year.

[gosuns]

What they have to work on is primarily mental toughness, and that is hard to install. Its what makes the good teams great. We have still a lot of young players who are still learning about that part of the game. Not beeing ready against Utah on a back to back or giving away a winnable game against the kings by choking three straight leads at the end of the fourth and two overtimes are clear simptoms of lack of mental toughness to me. I think we could have easily had a 6-2 record basketball wise if they would have taken care of business. I believe when you miss wide open jumpers even lay ups or miss assingnments on defender on an on at the end of games, you need to work on the mental aspect of the game, its not always about talent or stats and numbers, it's as much about effort, conviction and balls.

[Superbone]

I think we could have easily had a 6-2 record basketball wise if they would have taken care of business.

That would be some kind of feat in only 7 games.

[gosuns]

I think we could have easily had a 6-2 record basketball wise if they would have taken care of business.

That would be some kind of feat in only 7 games.

Sorry. I meant 6-1.

[INFORMER]

They kind of remind me of the post Barkley team that started 0-13 (obviously theyre much better) but that team also had identity issues until they traded Finley and others for Jason Kidd.

That team didn't have identity issues; it was just an awful team that got a much needed overhaul during the season. Though this current team isn't awful, I would love to see it get a similar makeover.

[INFORMER]

What they have to work on is primarily mental toughness

Really?! EDC has done a good job of outlining a lot of fundamental basketball issues plaguing the Suns on the offensive end. Ring has pointed out the defensive breakdowns. I don't think that is an issue of mental toughness.

Mental toughness won't change the lack of quality depth in the frontcourt. Mental toughness isn't going to make Markieff a better defender or rebounder. And mental toughness isn't going to change the fact that we have three lead guards that for one to be at his best, the other two suffer.

[gosuns]

What they have to work on is primarily mental toughness

Really?! EDC has done a good job of outlining a lot of fundamental basketball issues plaguing the Suns on the offensive end. Ring has pointed out the defensive breakdowns. I don't think that is an issue of mental toughness.

Mental toughness won't change the lack of quality depth in the frontcourt. Mental toughness isn't going to make Markieff a better defender or rebounder. And mental toughness isn't going to change the fact that we have three lead guards that for one to be at his best, the other two suffer.

There will never be a perfect team. At the end of the day you need to make shots and want to win more than your opponent. I m not denying anything that has been said basketball wise, but do not underestimate the mental part of the game. It's about brains and hart as much as it is about talent and matchups. Thats my point. This is our team right now, I'm not saying we couldn't have a better team, I'm saying this team could be better than what they have shown so far.

[Indy]

I don't think that is an issue of mental toughness.

Agreed. We don't have the players we need to be very successful. I am a Morris fan (and maybe a Morii fan if Marcus keeps progressing), but there is no way we can be successful if we regularly HAVE to play Tolliver or Shav. We don't have a single true NBA-caliber PF. I don't think we have a true D-league PF either. Same goes for Center, although I am really hoping I see improvement from Len once his hand is better. I really appreciated the first half of last season from Plumlee, but I don't see his ceiling as being higher than good first PF/C off the bench.

Ah, enough of my ranting...

And mental toughness isn't going to change the fact that we have three lead guards that for one to be at his best, the other two suffer.

Well, maybe not done with ranting just yet...

I really see all 3 as guys that only exceed at the expense of the others. I think you lose a lot of what makes each of them great by taking the ball out of their hands. And that is never good to have 3 guys on the same team that are only truly effective on offense when they have the ball the majority of time. You could argue Green is the same way. He isn't great at operating within the offense, making great screens, or noticing mismatches. He is damn good (at times) at shooting us to wins, many times with "No! No! No! YES!" shots. (Start rant within a rant--As much as he drives me crazy at times, I think he is really good for our team.) So I would say we have 3 guards that are most effective when they have the ball for extended periods of time, with a fringe 4th in a completely different, but similar mold.

Damn, I sound much more depressed with our lineup when I actually spend time to post about it. But I have had a blast watching the games this year!

[Indy]

This is our team right now, I'm not saying we couldn't have a better team, I'm saying this team could be better than what they have shown so far.

I am pretty happy to be 4-3 with the offense we have been running so far. Like EDC has been saying, running a play 75% of the time on offense where you have a very good PG throw Plumlee the ball at the top of the key, just to give it back a few seconds later, is simply a waste of time. And we are supposed to be in attach mode. I think we would all agree we are better off with Goran, Bledsoe or Thomas attacking/probing than Plumlee standing 22 feet from the hoop. So much wasted energy.

[ShelC]

I think we'll either get better as guys adjust to and understand their roles (especially in the backcourt) or guys won't adjust or understand their role and there will be some bickering behind the scenes (IT3 and Bledsoe come to mind).

[da_suns_fan]

This game just proved the Suns really dont know who they are yet. I mean its great that our bench won the game but is that our game plan going forward?

I would say it is absolutely part of our game plan that Thomas and Green will win games for us this year.

And have Goran, Markieff and Bledsoe on the bench for the entire fourth quarter?

If so, thats a LOT of wasted cap space.

[da_suns_fan]

They kind of remind me of the post Barkley team that started 0-13 (obviously theyre much better) but that team also had identity issues until they traded Finley and others for Jason Kidd.

That team didn't have identity issues; it was just an awful team that got a much needed overhaul during the season. Though this current team isn't awful, I would love to see it get a similar makeover.

It was an awful team that had a lot of average-good players. How can a team with KJ, Cassell, Finley, Danny Manning, Robert Horry, Tisdale, AC Green, Rex Chapman and even a rookie Steve Nash be "awful"?

[Indy]

This game just proved the Suns really dont know who they are yet. I mean its great that our bench won the game but is that our game plan going forward?

I would say it is absolutely part of our game plan that Thomas and Green will win games for us this year.

And have Goran, Markieff and Bledsoe on the bench for the entire fourth quarter?

If so, thats a LOT of wasted cap space.

First, that wasn't part of the question with which you started.

Second, we wouldn't have won the game without Goran's first quarter

Third, some days even our top players aren't going to have it going. So good thing we have a bench with guys that can literally take over a game in a quarter.

[Indy]

They kind of remind me of the post Barkley team that started 0-13 (obviously theyre much better) but that team also had identity issues until they traded Finley and others for Jason Kidd.

That team didn't have identity issues; it was just an awful team that got a much needed overhaul during the season. Though this current team isn't awful, I would love to see it get a similar makeover.

It was an awful team that had a lot of average-good players. How can a team with KJ, Cassell, Finley, Danny Manning, Robert Horry, Tisdale, AC Green, Rex Chapman and even a rookie Steve Nash be "awful"?

Cassell and Horry didn't want to be here at all. Danny Manning was a shell of his former self. I am not going to even address Wayman at that time. Green was pretty much done too.

[INFORMER]

How can a team with KJ, Cassell, Finley, Danny Manning, Robert Horry, Tisdale, AC Green, Rex Chapman and even a rookie Steve Nash be "awful"?

Easy. KJ wasn't healthy. Finley was just a rookie. Cassell and Horry didn't want to be here. Cassell was thrust into being "the man" when he had no business being in that role. Nash was barely ready to contribute. And the team, surprise surprise, didn't have a big man.

EDIT: Indy beat me to it.

[SwingMan]

They kind of remind me of the post Barkley team that started 0-13 (obviously theyre much better) but that team also had identity issues until they traded Finley and others for Jason Kidd.

That team didn't have identity issues; it was just an awful team that got a much needed overhaul during the season. Though this current team isn't awful, I would love to see it get a similar makeover.

It was an awful team that had a lot of average-good players. How can a team with KJ, Cassell, Finley, Danny Manning, Robert Horry, Tisdale, AC Green, Rex Chapman and even a rookie Steve Nash be "awful"?

Cassell and Horry didn't want to be here at all. Danny Manning was a shell of his former self. I am not going to even address Wayman at that time. Green was pretty much done too.

Yeah - things were so bad that Cotton hung it up just 8 games into the season. Fucking Cassell & Horry were nothing but disruptive douchebags during their thankfully short stays.

[Indy]

I think that was more about Cotton being done than anything else, Swing. He only came back the year before as a favor to Jerry.

[SwingMan]

I think that was more about Cotton being done than anything else, Swing. He only came back the year before as a favor to Jerry.

Still, I think there might've even been some backbiting by Ainge going on as well - I seem to remember Cotton talking about "the players listen to him more, anyways" or something along those lines.

I'm just thankful that those two (Cassell & Horry) were dealt ASAP - Horry the day after the towel incident, IIRC.

[Indy]

I think it was about a week, but agreed. It wasn't soon enough. I completely get trading Barkley (he didn't want to be here anyway, and wasn't into it). But you just don't do the trade they did without already having the 2nd step lined up.

[SwingMan]

I think it was about a week, but agreed. It wasn't soon enough. I completely get trading Barkley (he didn't want to be here anyway, and wasn't into it). But you just don't do the trade they did without already having the 2nd step lined up.

Mark Bryant was actually pretty solid, if not spectacular and we got El Ced back (with Rumeal Robinson), who worked out halfway decent with all the small-ball we were forced to play, for Horry - but yeah, the Barkley trade was, to be polite, rushed.