Phx-Suns.Net

Shabazz wrote:It was pretty widely regarded as a top-5 backcourt coming in to the season.

Because it produces stats. The question is, how far is it going to take you?

SDC wrote: who said horny should?

When did I say someone did? I was just making a general statement.

i say keep dragic, green and IT. ditch bleds contract.

INFORMER wrote:

Shabazz wrote:It was pretty widely regarded as a top-5 backcourt coming in to the season.

Because it produces stats. The question is, how far is it going to take you?

Just depends on the rest of the roster, no?

Detroit's Bad Boys did pretty well for themselves relying on their three guards. Of course they also had a pretty potent group of role players in the front court that were pretty stout defenders and rebounders. The Suns always come up short there.

The Bobster wrote:Detroit's Bad Boys did pretty well for themselves relying on their three guards.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not making any summary judgments about trying to win with two point guards. Philosophically I'm not opposed or in favor of that strategy; I'm willing to consider any strategy within reason.

I just think these two particular point guards in particular aren't going to form a duo that carries a team to a championship.

Especially when they decide to use the one with the fewest point guard skills as the point guard.

Shabazz wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

Shabazz wrote:It was pretty widely regarded as a top-5 backcourt coming in to the season.

Because it produces stats. The question is, how far is it going to take you?

Just depends on the rest of the roster, no?

Yes and no. I thought Kevin Love was the one player (that was available) you could add to that duo that would really optimize it.

And of course you can talk about other stars and superstars you can add to the duo to make a contender. But if you're adding that kind of talent to that duo, then it stops being about that duo, doesn't it? And if you're committing approximately $30 million or more to that duo, is that really money well spent?

INFORMER wrote:

Shabazz wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

Shabazz wrote:It was pretty widely regarded as a top-5 backcourt coming in to the season.

Because it produces stats. The question is, how far is it going to take you?

Just depends on the rest of the roster, no?

Yes and no. I thought Kevin Love was the one player (that was available) you could add to that duo that would really optimize it.

And of course you can talk about other stars and superstars you can add to the duo to make a contender. But if you're adding that kind of talent to that duo, then it stops being about that duo, doesn't it? And if you're committing approximately $30 million or more to that duo, is that really money well spent?

Bosh and an aging Wade for $30M will only get you so far on their own, too. Add LeBron to the mix...

(I know, I know)

INFORMER wrote:

Shabazz wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

Shabazz wrote:It was pretty widely regarded as a top-5 backcourt coming in to the season.

Because it produces stats. The question is, how far is it going to take you?

Just depends on the rest of the roster, no?

Yes and no. I thought Kevin Love was the one player (that was available) you could add to that duo that would really optimize it.

And of course you can talk about other stars and superstars you can add to the duo to make a contender. But if you're adding that kind of talent to that duo, then it stops being about that duo, doesn't it? And if you're committing approximately $30 million or more to that duo, is that really money well spent?

I think it's fine to commit that much, and if it doesn't work well, trade one of them. I think one could be a piece in a big deal if need be. I agree about Love on this team.

Will these two guards lead us to a championship? In this western conference, likely not any time soon, but I'd hold onto them at a minimum for trade assets, and if we get better players around them, who knows how good they could be? It's not like we can go out and deal one of them for a star shooting guard. There are not many star shooting guards that don't dominate the ball. Guys like Thompson, Beal and DeRozan might make us better, but championship caliber? Probably not. Keep them both until the right deal comes along.

As for paying them both that money, I don't think cap space does us a whole lot of good, considering it is so tough to sign premier free agents. It is highly doubtful we sign one, and I feel it is much more likely we could trade a locked up Dragic or Bledsoe for premier assets.

If Dragic leaves, then you get the cap space, Since we have a pretty deep roster, I wouldn't trade Dragic for pennies on the dollar when he is an impending free agent.

And to get back to the $30 million for two point guards, I think the cap is going to go up big time in the summer of 2016 and people are going to start throwing around more money than ever...likely significantly more, and suddenly Bledsoe and Dragic might seem like good deals. Plus, considering we have most of our roster on rookie contracts or decent deals, once that cap goes up, we will probably have cap space to use if needed on a good free agent.

question for mcdo, why would goran resign with a lottery team with 2 other starting caliber point guards? does mcdo have any plans to trade away IT or bledsoe and dismantle the 3 pg model?

or is he just trying to get dragic on the record of turning down his dumb, quickie-at-the-last-minute extension offer so he can cover his ass before he trades dragic for the 30th pick?

SDC wrote:question for mcdo, why would goran resign with a lottery team with 2 other starting caliber poing guards? does mcdo have any plans to trade away IT or bledsoe and dismantle the 3 pg model?

or is he just trying to get dragic on the record of turning down his dumb, quickie-at-the-last-minute extension offer so he can cover his ass before he trades dragic for the 30th pick?

What extension? Dragic's opting out of a player option to become an unrestricted free agent. The whole extension thing is not even a possibility. Why are you making up a scenario and pushing it?

Shabazz wrote:

SDC wrote:question for mcdo, why would goran resign with a lottery team with 2 other starting caliber poing guards? does mcdo have any plans to trade away IT or bledsoe and dismantle the 3 pg model?

or is he just trying to get dragic on the record of turning down his dumb, quickie-at-the-last-minute extension offer so he can cover his ass before he trades dragic for the 30th pick?

What extension? Dragic's opting out of a player option to become an unrestricted free agent. The whole extension thing is not even a possibility. Why are you making up a scenario and pushing it?

That has nothing to do with an extension. That's not on the table.

bwgood77 wrote:I think it's fine to commit that much

It's fine in that it isn't cataclysmic, but I don't think the upside is there so what's the point?

bwgood77 wrote:if it doesn't work well, trade one of them

Why not trade one of them now? And by one of them, I mean Bledsoe. Is there anyone that looks at this team now and says, "man this is something special that will eventually dominate the league"? Why waste time treading water with this?

bwgood77 wrote:I'd hold onto them at a minimum for trade assets

The problem with those assets is that they play a position that's the deepest in the league and easiest to fill. So the appreciation on those assets isn't that high.

bwgood77 wrote:As for paying them both that money, I don't think cap space does us a whole lot of good,

At the very least it helps to facilitate trades.

bwgood77 wrote:If Dragic leaves, then you get the cap space

He only makes $7.5 million. The Morris Twins' extensions negate any savings from that.

INFORMER wrote:He only makes $7.5 million. The Morris Twins' extensions negate any savings from that.

Not accurate, and you know it.

Without Dragic (and Green) and counting in the Morrii extensions, the Suns would have under $53M
committed for the 2015-6 season.

If you assume an increase similar to what the cap has experienced this season, it would be set at around $66-68M. Substract the cap hold of our own pick from the space and it still gives you comfortably more than 10M to spend, without needing to make any other moves (like say dumping/stretching Zoran).

And to add to it, the extensions actually represent less than their cap hold for next summer. So unless you wanted to let them go for nothing after this season by not extending a QO, those deals actually help for the purposes we are talking about, if just marginally.

Ring_Wanted wrote: So unless you wanted to let them go for nothing after this season by not extending a QO

You can withdraw that QO offer at anytime. I have never gotten why you act like capholds are this insurmountable impediment to spending.

And I maintain my earlier point. The Morris Twins extension represent a $7 million increase in salary. Dragic makes $7.5 million. We're talking about letting Goran walk when the same could have been done with the Morris Twins. That wasn't my preference though; I wanted to move them last offseason and still do.

The extensions would negate savings if they were large enough so the Suns wouldn't have relevant cap space left without Dragic, but as I pointed, that's not the case even compared just to the cap holds needed if you don't want to set them free for nothing, which you may be ok with but in my opinion is not a sound way to manage assets.

Yes, I call them assets, and yes, cap space is also an asset (whose utility for a franchise like the Suns is questionable nowadays compared to the past, but still).

For the record, and as I have posted in the 2015 deadline thread, I want to see what I can get for them now or next offseason.

INFORMER wrote:Don't get me wrong, I'm not making any summary judgments about trying to win with two point guards. Philosophically I'm not opposed or in favor of that strategy; I'm willing to consider any strategy within reason.

I just think these two particular point guards in particular aren't going to form a duo that carries a team to a championship.

The current roster is not a title contender, present or future. Huh. Also, Icky Woods will celebrate anything and playing poker with Kenny Rogers gets old really fast.

The franchise swung for the fences this past summer, and whiffed when LeBron wouldn't even hear their pitch.

McD may have made some mistakes. But he did try to assemble a contender, and he didn't sell what we ended up with as that contender. Pointing out the obvious fact that we don't have a championship core is arguing with a straw man.

I d'like to get Gallo if we trade with Denver. Any scenario where we could get him. I think our training staff could get him back to a great level. Helps out spacing, plus he is still young.