A place for fans of the Phoenix Suns
https://www.phx-suns.net/
I get it.O_Gardino wrote:I get that Ayton is a waaaaay better freshman than JJJ. I just don't put a premium on Ayton's skillset at the NBA level.
I don't get the reservation. There is nothing non-nba about his body or athleticism. He has speed, a vast array of post moves, he shoots well out to the 3 point line, he rebounds at a good rate and that will translate. He also blocks shots at a good rate, not a Mo Bamba rate, but for Bamba that is nearly his whole game. The only knock on Ayton is his lack of motivating on D at times.specialsauce wrote:I get it.O_Gardino wrote:I get that Ayton is a waaaaay better freshman than JJJ. I just don't put a premium on Ayton's skillset at the NBA level.
I don’t agree with him, but I know what he is saying. I assume he sees him as a Dwight Howard type and JJJ more like a soft big man that runs the floor, when in reality he is so much more fit for this game today than Dwight Howard.JCSunsfan wrote:I don't get the reservation. There is nothing non-nba about his body or athleticism. He has speed, a vast array of post moves, he shoots well out to the 3 point line, he rebounds at a good rate and that will translate. He also blocks shots at a good rate, not a Mo Bamba rate, but for Bamba that is nearly his whole game. The only knock on Ayton is his lack of motivating on D at times.specialsauce wrote:I get it.O_Gardino wrote:I get that Ayton is a waaaaay better freshman than JJJ. I just don't put a premium on Ayton's skillset at the NBA level.
I don't think he's trash, I'm just not a believer.JCSunsfan wrote:I don't get the reservation. There is nothing non-nba about his body or athleticism. He has speed, a vast array of post moves, he shoots well out to the 3 point line, he rebounds at a good rate and that will translate. He also blocks shots at a good rate, not a Mo Bamba rate, but for Bamba that is nearly his whole game. The only knock on Ayton is his lack of motivating on D at times.specialsauce wrote:I get it.O_Gardino wrote:I get that Ayton is a waaaaay better freshman than JJJ. I just don't put a premium on Ayton's skillset at the NBA level.
Respect right there - my same initial reservations of ayton laid out better than I ever would have expressed them before i fell into line with popular opinion.O_Gardino wrote:I don't think he's trash, I'm just not a believer.JCSunsfan wrote:I don't get the reservation. There is nothing non-nba about his body or athleticism. He has speed, a vast array of post moves, he shoots well out to the 3 point line, he rebounds at a good rate and that will translate. He also blocks shots at a good rate, not a Mo Bamba rate, but for Bamba that is nearly his whole game. The only knock on Ayton is his lack of motivating on D at times.specialsauce wrote:I get it.O_Gardino wrote:I get that Ayton is a waaaaay better freshman than JJJ. I just don't put a premium on Ayton's skillset at the NBA level.
He seems to me like any one of the dozens of centers taken high in the draft based on college achievements and physical measurements who turn out to be ok nba players. The best things about him are his size and post play, and the worst things are his IQ and competitiveness? Plus, he just looks older than his listed age. I wouldn't be surprised if he's 3 or 4 years older than listed.
The vast majority of his scoring comes from lobs and putbacks. Both of those are nice skills, but you can't build a team around them.
Good post skills. Nobody plays through the post anymore.
His shot is ok when he has lots of time to shoot it, but I just don't feel like it will translate well to the NBA. NBA closeouts are brutal compared to the college game.
Can he pass to cutters or out of a hard double team? Yeah, I think he can pass, but I don't think he's a transcendent passer.
His rebounding is excellent, and I think he will continue to be a very good rebounder.
His defensive mobility is excellent.
His motivation is questionable. He gets a lot of easy(for him) stuff in college. Does he have enough fight in him to really dominate the NBA? I think he's too nonchalant.
His HoopsIQ is... I don't want to say it's in question, because I haven't seen him screw up a complicated play. But I also haven't seen him improvise too much to make good plays. He stays in his lane and just does the simple thing. That can be a good quality in a role player.
At best, I think he's Tyson Chandler with a bit of a jumper - pretty nice, eh? At worst, I think he's Greg Oden.
Actually, leg pressing 900 lbs would concern me. I leg press 900 lbs and I am 5-8 and in my 50's. My son leg pressed 1200 lbs in high school.3rdside wrote:Respect right there - my same initial reservations of ayton laid out better than I ever would have expressed them before i fell into line with popular opinion.O_Gardino wrote:I don't think he's trash, I'm just not a believer.JCSunsfan wrote:I don't get the reservation. There is nothing non-nba about his body or athleticism. He has speed, a vast array of post moves, he shoots well out to the 3 point line, he rebounds at a good rate and that will translate. He also blocks shots at a good rate, not a Mo Bamba rate, but for Bamba that is nearly his whole game. The only knock on Ayton is his lack of motivating on D at times.specialsauce wrote:I get it.O_Gardino wrote:I get that Ayton is a waaaaay better freshman than JJJ. I just don't put a premium on Ayton's skillset at the NBA level.
He seems to me like any one of the dozens of centers taken high in the draft based on college achievements and physical measurements who turn out to be ok nba players. The best things about him are his size and post play, and the worst things are his IQ and competitiveness? Plus, he just looks older than his listed age. I wouldn't be surprised if he's 3 or 4 years older than listed.
The vast majority of his scoring comes from lobs and putbacks. Both of those are nice skills, but you can't build a team around them.
Good post skills. Nobody plays through the post anymore.
His shot is ok when he has lots of time to shoot it, but I just don't feel like it will translate well to the NBA. NBA closeouts are brutal compared to the college game.
Can he pass to cutters or out of a hard double team? Yeah, I think he can pass, but I don't think he's a transcendent passer.
His rebounding is excellent, and I think he will continue to be a very good rebounder.
His defensive mobility is excellent.
His motivation is questionable. He gets a lot of easy(for him) stuff in college. Does he have enough fight in him to really dominate the NBA? I think he's too nonchalant.
His HoopsIQ is... I don't want to say it's in question, because I haven't seen him screw up a complicated play. But I also haven't seen him improvise too much to make good plays. He stays in his lane and just does the simple thing. That can be a good quality in a role player.
At best, I think he's Tyson Chandler with a bit of a jumper - pretty nice, eh? At worst, I think he's Greg Oden.
Looked old and I was tempted to write he possibly looks like an injury waiting to happen, with absolutely nothing to back that up other than to say the dude looks top heavy with skinny legs (although he leg presses 900lbs fwiw).
And the attitude concerns are valid - he wants to go number one, which is a positive, but everything else like you say suggests he’s a cruiser. Doncic with Petrovic drive would arguably be more appealing:
http://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/22 ... legacy-nba
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the link. That was a fun read.3rdside wrote: Respect right there - my same initial reservations of ayton laid out better than I ever would have expressed them before i fell into line with popular opinion.
http://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/22 ... legacy-nba
Shows how frequently I leg press, and how little I understand a basketball athletes weights regimen, off season or otherwise, but:JCSunsfan wrote:Actually, leg pressing 900 lbs would concern me. I leg press 900 lbs and I am 5-8 and in my 50's. My son leg pressed 1200 lbs in high school.3rdside wrote:Respect right there - my same initial reservations of ayton laid out better than I ever would have expressed them before i fell into line with popular opinion.O_Gardino wrote:I don't think he's trash, I'm just not a believer.JCSunsfan wrote:I don't get the reservation. There is nothing non-nba about his body or athleticism. He has speed, a vast array of post moves, he shoots well out to the 3 point line, he rebounds at a good rate and that will translate. He also blocks shots at a good rate, not a Mo Bamba rate, but for Bamba that is nearly his whole game. The only knock on Ayton is his lack of motivating on D at times.specialsauce wrote:
I get it.
He seems to me like any one of the dozens of centers taken high in the draft based on college achievements and physical measurements who turn out to be ok nba players. The best things about him are his size and post play, and the worst things are his IQ and competitiveness? Plus, he just looks older than his listed age. I wouldn't be surprised if he's 3 or 4 years older than listed.
The vast majority of his scoring comes from lobs and putbacks. Both of those are nice skills, but you can't build a team around them.
Good post skills. Nobody plays through the post anymore.
His shot is ok when he has lots of time to shoot it, but I just don't feel like it will translate well to the NBA. NBA closeouts are brutal compared to the college game.
Can he pass to cutters or out of a hard double team? Yeah, I think he can pass, but I don't think he's a transcendent passer.
His rebounding is excellent, and I think he will continue to be a very good rebounder.
His defensive mobility is excellent.
His motivation is questionable. He gets a lot of easy(for him) stuff in college. Does he have enough fight in him to really dominate the NBA? I think he's too nonchalant.
His HoopsIQ is... I don't want to say it's in question, because I haven't seen him screw up a complicated play. But I also haven't seen him improvise too much to make good plays. He stays in his lane and just does the simple thing. That can be a good quality in a role player.
At best, I think he's Tyson Chandler with a bit of a jumper - pretty nice, eh? At worst, I think he's Greg Oden.
Looked old and I was tempted to write he possibly looks like an injury waiting to happen, with absolutely nothing to back that up other than to say the dude looks top heavy with skinny legs (although he leg presses 900lbs fwiw).
And the attitude concerns are valid - he wants to go number one, which is a positive, but everything else like you say suggests he’s a cruiser. Doncic with Petrovic drive would arguably be more appealing:
http://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/22 ... legacy-nba
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Assuming he isn’t 24 then the article below, which I’ve just seen, just about confirms it for me - strength, mobility and work ethic, if you believe it, and I love this quote:O_Gardino wrote:Thanks for the link. That was a fun read.3rdside wrote: Respect right there - my same initial reservations of ayton laid out better than I ever would have expressed them before i fell into line with popular opinion.
http://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/22 ... legacy-nba
TBH, I only have Ayton at #4 out of respect for popular opinion. A lot of smart people like him, so maybe I'm just wrong. But I would be happier with many of the guys slotted later.
#HumbleBragJCSunsfan wrote:Actually, leg pressing 900 lbs would concern me. I leg press 900 lbs and I am 5-8 and in my 50's. My son leg pressed 1200 lbs in high school.3rdside wrote:Respect right there - my same initial reservations of ayton laid out better than I ever would have expressed them before i fell into line with popular opinion.O_Gardino wrote:I don't think he's trash, I'm just not a believer.JCSunsfan wrote:I don't get the reservation. There is nothing non-nba about his body or athleticism. He has speed, a vast array of post moves, he shoots well out to the 3 point line, he rebounds at a good rate and that will translate. He also blocks shots at a good rate, not a Mo Bamba rate, but for Bamba that is nearly his whole game. The only knock on Ayton is his lack of motivating on D at times.specialsauce wrote:
I get it.
He seems to me like any one of the dozens of centers taken high in the draft based on college achievements and physical measurements who turn out to be ok nba players. The best things about him are his size and post play, and the worst things are his IQ and competitiveness? Plus, he just looks older than his listed age. I wouldn't be surprised if he's 3 or 4 years older than listed.
The vast majority of his scoring comes from lobs and putbacks. Both of those are nice skills, but you can't build a team around them.
Good post skills. Nobody plays through the post anymore.
His shot is ok when he has lots of time to shoot it, but I just don't feel like it will translate well to the NBA. NBA closeouts are brutal compared to the college game.
Can he pass to cutters or out of a hard double team? Yeah, I think he can pass, but I don't think he's a transcendent passer.
His rebounding is excellent, and I think he will continue to be a very good rebounder.
His defensive mobility is excellent.
His motivation is questionable. He gets a lot of easy(for him) stuff in college. Does he have enough fight in him to really dominate the NBA? I think he's too nonchalant.
His HoopsIQ is... I don't want to say it's in question, because I haven't seen him screw up a complicated play. But I also haven't seen him improvise too much to make good plays. He stays in his lane and just does the simple thing. That can be a good quality in a role player.
At best, I think he's Tyson Chandler with a bit of a jumper - pretty nice, eh? At worst, I think he's Greg Oden.
Looked old and I was tempted to write he possibly looks like an injury waiting to happen, with absolutely nothing to back that up other than to say the dude looks top heavy with skinny legs (although he leg presses 900lbs fwiw).
And the attitude concerns are valid - he wants to go number one, which is a positive, but everything else like you say suggests he’s a cruiser. Doncic with Petrovic drive would arguably be more appealing:
http://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/22 ... legacy-nba
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Assuming no one in the top 7 drops (Ayton, Doncic, JJJ, Bagley, Porter, Carter, young) I'd take one of the bridges. Probably MikalO_Gardino wrote:Who would you take at 8?