Phx-Suns.Net

You guys should have watched the Euroleague final game. Doncic has showed a lot of good things but he is not the total package some people are thinking about.

If you pay attention, you can see how he has trouble penetrating, which often makes him need to default to a step back three (really, if we draft him better be ready to see 3-5 of those per game). Those moves and his passing ability is where the Harden comps come from, but to me they are inaccurate, because Doncic is not a consistent threat on isos, and honestly his handle is not too tight if he is going to be your primary initiator. I've seen Ginobili mentioned too. As in 'Luka is a bigger but less explosive Manu'. Well, that difference in first step will hurt a lot when you have hounds playing defense on you.

On the other hand, Doncic is actually not bad on defense (he tries and knows where to be) and is not weak on the boards, even in contested situations. If he grabs a defensive rebound he is perfectly able to go coast to coast, and if you put rim runners around him, watch out. He is working out, but I also have to tell you that last year and the year before he looked more limber on his feet, especially driving to the basket, although fatigue sure plays a part at this point.

Bottom line is you could be getting a fundamentally sound handler with a shot and ability to play off the ball, but despite the precocity I have trouble imagining him imposing his will in the NBA. You know what? I see a better Bogdan Bogdanovic. And in the context of the #1 pick, he has not done a lot for his stock in my eyes, despite the win and the awards.

No hating, and wouldn't be mad if we drafted him, but I am not sure he'd put the franchise in a better position than a Booker-Ayton combo.

ShelC wrote:Doncic has what Ayton doesn't - big game experience. At 18, he's the leader of his team, MVP of the league and playing in game situations Ayton hasn't. He's a proven basketball player. No amount of training in a gym can replicate that.

I'm really hoping Sarver and McD realize it.

My worry with Doncic is that he's just ok. I don't think he'll bust and he'll be a very useful player, but I don't really see superstar. His athleticism is pretty meh. I think it's definitely possible he improves that with better training, but I can see it being a limiting factor in his development.

There's less questions with Ayton on what he's capable of doing. Can't teach size and athleticism. You can teach defense. That's no guarantee he ever learns it, but he's not going to be held back by physical limitations. I can't say the same for Doncic.

Everyone says you can teach defense. Amar'e never learned to defend. Eddy Curry never learned to defend. KAT hasn't really learned to defend. Jahlil Okafor hasn't learned to defend. You either got it or you don't.

I wonder if Bogdan Bogdanovic should be someone we look at in comparing Luka? Had a ton of success overseas, big game experience, won a bunch of titles and awards. Was OK as an older rook with the Kings.

ShelC wrote:Doncic has what Ayton doesn't - big game experience. At 18, he's the leader of his team, MVP of the league and playing in game situations Ayton hasn't. He's a proven basketball player. No amount of training in a gym can replicate that.

It's true that Ayton has never been the MVP of the Euroleague. He was one of the greatest players in the league he played in, though. Training in a gym can't replicate big game experience, but playing in the NBA is actual big game experience, so I'm sure he'll catch up pretty quickly.

Split T wrote:My worry with Doncic is that he's just ok. I don't think he'll bust and he'll be a very useful player, but I don't really see superstar. His athleticism is pretty meh. I think it's definitely possible he improves that with better training, but I can see it being a limiting factor in his development.

There's less questions with Ayton on what he's capable of doing. Can't teach size and athleticism. You can teach defense. That's no guarantee he ever learns it, but he's not going to be held back by physical limitations. I can't say the same for Doncic.

Yeah, this is not an easy choice although some of us fans give the impression that it is. I just have to trust McDonough and crew that they come to the best choice possible for the Suns on June 21st. All indications are that they are doing their due diligence. Plus, they just happen to have probably the foremost expert on staff about Doncic in coach Kokoskov. We also should have quite a bit of intel on Ayton since he played just down the road. I feel pretty good that we will make the right choice. The thing is, we won't even know if we did until a year or two down the line.

ShelC wrote:Everyone says you can teach defense. Amar'e never learned to defend. Eddy Curry never learned to defend. KAT hasn't really learned to defend. Jahlil Okafor hasn't learned to defend. You either got it or you don't.

We'll I'm not saying everyone just learns it. Of course there will be examples of people who never learned, but that doesn't mean nobody learns how to defend.

I would feel so much better about Ayton if he was good in the pick and roll or had good handles. He isn't going to come in to the NBA and just dominate in the post. That almost never happens. So it will probably be a few years before that side of his game catches up to the NBA level.

If he reaches his potential we will look pretty good in 2 years. Question is will he reach his potential and are we willing to wait another few years to start winning.

EDC wrote:I would feel so much better about Ayton if he was good in the pick and roll or had good handles. He isn't going to come in to the NBA and just dominate in the post. That almost never happens. So it will probably be a few years before that side of his game catches up to the NBA level.

If he reaches his potential we will look pretty good in 2 years. Question is will he reach his potential and are we willing to wait another few years to start winning.

I don't see us getting into the playoffs next year unless all the stars aligned. 2 years sounds about right.

Superbone wrote:

EDC wrote:I would feel so much better about Ayton if he was good in the pick and roll or had good handles. He isn't going to come in to the NBA and just dominate in the post. That almost never happens. So it will probably be a few years before that side of his game catches up to the NBA level.

If he reaches his potential we will look pretty good in 2 years. Question is will he reach his potential and are we willing to wait another few years to start winning.

I don't see us getting into the playoffs next year unless all the stars aligned. 2 years sounds about right.

I just meant winning more than 30 games. Two more years of that would be rough.

Ring_Wanted wrote:You guys should have watched the Euroleague final game. Doncic has showed a lot of good things but he is not the total package some people are thinking about.

If you pay attention, you can see how he has trouble penetrating, which often makes him need to default to a step back three (really, if we draft him better be ready to see 3-5 of those per game). Those moves and his passing ability is where the Harden comps come from, but to me they are inaccurate, because Doncic is not a consistent threat on isos, and honestly his handle is not too tight if he is going to be your primary initiator. I've seen Ginobili mentioned too. As in 'Luka is a bigger but less explosive Manu'. Well, that difference in first step will hurt a lot when you have hounds playing defense on you.

I gotta admit that I did notice this also, the highlights I've seen last couple months showed him getting into the lane alot but as Ring pointed out he wasn't getting pass his defenders today
Still lots to like but it's a solid point for those who might just be seeing the highlights

Superbone wrote:Marty? What is the current method for joining this board? ASFN is getting an influx of posters from overseas, Slovenia and Spain for example, talking about Doncic. It would be fun to have some of them over here too.

Registration is open, but after they register, it basically puts their account in an "unverified" or "inactive" state where it can't post yet. Normally in order to get out of that state you have to do an email verification, but spam accounts were able to verify and then post lots of spam. It became a problem that wore on the mods.

For the time being, I have made it so that it is not possible for users to verify their accounts. They can register, but then in order to get verified and become able to post, an admin has to go in and set the account as Verified manually. If we know of anybody who has a stuck unverified account, they can send email to ***** to get it verified.

Alternatively, we could re-enable user self-verification by email, if the mods would like to deal with any spam that would come in. Thoughts?

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

Superbone wrote:Marty? What is the current method for joining this board? ASFN is getting an influx of posters from overseas, Slovenia and Spain for example, talking about Doncic. It would be fun to have some of them over here too.

Registration is open, but after they register, it basically puts their account in an "unverified" or "inactive" state where it can't post yet. Normally in order to get out of that state you have to do an email verification, but spam accounts were able to verify and then post lots of spam. It became a problem that wore on the mods.

For the time being, I have made it so that it is not possible for users to verify their accounts. They can register, but then in order to get verified and become able to post, an admin has to go in and set the account as Verified manually. If we know of anybody who has a stuck unverified account, they can send email to ***** to get it verified.

Alternatively, we could re-enable user self-verification by email, if the mods would like to deal with any spam that would come in. Thoughts?

As someone that is admittedly not a mod, I think it would be nice to test-run making it easier to register--now would be the time that interest in the Suns could bring in some new, fresh perspectives.

Ring_Wanted wrote:You guys should have watched the Euroleague final game. Doncic has showed a lot of good things but he is not the total package some people are thinking about.

If you pay attention, you can see how he has trouble penetrating, which often makes him need to default to a step back three (really, if we draft him better be ready to see 3-5 of those per game). Those moves and his passing ability is where the Harden comps come from, but to me they are inaccurate, because Doncic is not a consistent threat on isos, and honestly his handle is not too tight if he is going to be your primary initiator. I've seen Ginobili mentioned too. As in 'Luka is a bigger but less explosive Manu'. Well, that difference in first step will hurt a lot when you have hounds playing defense on you.

On the other hand, Doncic is actually not bad on defense (he tries and knows where to be) and is not weak on the boards, even in contested situations. If he grabs a defensive rebound he is perfectly able to go coast to coast, and if you put rim runners around him, watch out. He is working out, but I also have to tell you that last year and the year before he looked more limber on his feet, especially driving to the basket, although fatigue sure plays a part at this point.

Bottom line is you could be getting a fundamentally sound handler with a shot and ability to play off the ball, but despite the precocity I have trouble imagining him imposing his will in the NBA. You know what? I see a better Bogdan Bogdanovic. And in the context of the #1 pick, he has not done a lot for his stock in my eyes, despite the win and the awards.

No hating, and wouldn't be mad if we drafted him, but I am not sure he'd put the franchise in a better position than a Booker-Ayton combo.

i was sold on stephen curry the moment i saw all his games in the u19 2007 games in serbia. I also saw all of doncic's games in the 2017 eurobasket, and thought some of these scouts are overrating him. beware!

google "phoenix suns forum" and you will see that realgm suns forum is the most popular followed by arizona sports fan forum.

SDC wrote:google "phoenix suns forum" and you will see that realgm suns forum is the most popular followed by arizona sports fan forum.

Yeah, but we’re still the best.

Cap wrote:

SDC wrote:google "phoenix suns forum" and you will see that realgm suns forum is the most popular followed by arizona sports fan forum.

Yeah, but we’re still the best.

it's time for mori to make sure google ranks phx-suns.net as the top search item in phoenix suns forums.

Cap wrote:

SDC wrote:google "phoenix suns forum" and you will see that realgm suns forum is the most popular followed by arizona sports fan forum.

Yeah, but we’re still the best.

We are certainly the most modest Phoenix Suns forum. The most modest site on the entire internet, really.

SDC wrote:

Cap wrote:

SDC wrote:google "phoenix suns forum" and you will see that realgm suns forum is the most popular followed by arizona sports fan forum.

Yeah, but we’re still the best.

it's time for mori to make sure google ranks phx-suns.net as the top search item in phoenix suns forums.

Don't worry, I know a guy on the inside at Google. Actually, a girl!

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

Cap wrote:

SDC wrote:google "phoenix suns forum" and you will see that realgm suns forum is the most popular followed by arizona sports fan forum.

Yeah, but we’re still the best.

We are certainly the most modest Phoenix Suns forum. The most modest site on the entire internet, really.

The failing Google is unfair to us! It’s a disgrace! SAD!