Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:19 am
25 wins is what has crossed my mind too. The improvement will be marginal, in my opinion.
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Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:20 am
Not saying it's a bad deal, but giving away first rounders matters. Or did you mean that it doesn't matter what Inf thinks?Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:48 amDoesn't matter. They got their guy and looking around at the deals some other players got, it's actually a good proposition at $21.5M per. I would have loved it if Jones was able to pull it off.
On the other hand Saric is a better rebounder than Warren and Rubio is good for a guard. Saric also shoots fine. Hard to fix everything that is wrong with this team at once, with players that do it all on team friendly contracts. Especially when the team has a bad reputation.Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:48 amAs for Rubio, he cheks a number of boxes but is a terrible shot maker. By going after him, it seems we keep forgetting we were dead last in 3pt last season. It's like going after Saric at PF; Jones seems to be unaware of the fact that PHX was dead last in rebounding too.
I'd say Rubio and Saric are average starters, but even mediocre starters are a big improvement. We might even have a roster without glaring holes and logjams next year. I'm as baffled as anyone with the draft though.Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:48 amAt the end of the day, this is a sub-20 wins team that has added two mediocre/flawed starters, a couple of supposedly ready now rookie role players and has shuffled bench bigs. All that while spending a considerable amount of assets.
I very much share your concerns. I probably sound too optimistic in my other comments, my mentality with this teams is "I'll believe it when I see it."Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:48 amAbsolutely underwhelming offseason so far, and it still remains to be seen how much they spend on Oubre and maybe even what kind of asset they need to give up to dump Jackson/Okobo/Melton.
Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:03 am
Great post.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:03 amThis Rubio signing, plus the Saric trade, flips me to being happy overall with the offseason. I'm still not happy with the draft selection of Cam Johnson at #11, and I wish we had gotten anything for TJ Warren. But I do like Rubio and Saric a lot as new starters at PG and PF for us next year.
Many of you seem to be so down on Rubio. He's a phenomenal passer. He'll run our offense and will make other guys better, like Booker and Oubre and Bridges and especially Ayton, who sorely needs somebody who can throw him an entry pass or lob pass or run a P&R with him. I really think Rubio will have one of the top assist numbers in the league next year. His effect will be contagious, getting guys to run the floor harder, to look for more passing themselves. I think his veteran leadership will be great. And he's a darn good defender, so our perimeter defense won't be such a nightmare.
I know his shooting is bad. But he doesn't need to take a lot of outside shots. We can have shooters at most of the other positions when he's on the floor. And I would rather have a PG who can pass and defend than one who shoots but can't play D (unless he's at a god-like Nash or Curry level).
I read several posts saying that Rubio is "settling" and locking us in to mediocrity. I think the conventional wisdom here is a bit off. It's bad to be mired at the #8 seed for years, yes. But that's especially the case when you don't have young guys who are growing and getting better. The bad #8 seed is the one with veterans, the one that has peaked already. The one where if you run the team back, you'll get the #8 again and just be stuck there. If your team is full of youngs like ours, getting to the #8 seed is great! Then the next year your guys show up a year older and wiser, now with playoff experience under their belt. Now they can try to get the #6 or #5, and the year after that you're trying to get home-court in the first round.
If you wanted a shoot-first PG, whose shots did you want him to take away? Booker's? Ayton's? Oubre's? Saric's? Don't you want our PG expertly setting all of those guys up? Saric is going to hit so many open 3s next season. Booker won't be tired out by the 4th quarter from badly pretending to be a PG or a guy who can run an offense. Ayton will actually get the ball passed to him. Our offense is going to look sooooo much better next year.
I don't know if you guys can even remember how transformative it is to have a competent point guard running an NBA offense. We had absolute garbage at the PG position last year and it completely killed us as a team. The difference will be night and day.
As for the contract, I think it is utterly fair given the market we're in this week. Many other players got bigger and worse contracts, and I don't think his salary is unfair compared to other starting PGs in the league. It's only 3 years, too.
This is a great signing. I couldn't be happier. You will all see, this team is going to feel completely different next year. There will be actual positive energy around this franchise for once.
Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:20 am
i think the suns make the playoffs this year.
Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:22 am
Well now they must sign Oubre and use Rubio and him in uptempo offense.
IMO 30 wins would be good result and base for next year, everthing more would be great and we would have finally something to wait for.
IMO 30 wins would be good result and base for next year, everthing more would be great and we would have finally something to wait for.
Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:03 am
Haha. I meant that giving up those picks to acquire Brogdon (for an amount under the max) is a good deal. I would have been more than ok using those resources to add Brogdon.
Saric is is fine offensively but is not a relevant rebounder. In this context, it doesn't make a difference compared to Warren (who actually was a terrific offensive rebounder, btw).On the other hand Saric is a better rebounder than Warren and Rubio is good for a guard. Saric also shoots fine. Hard to fix everything that is wrong with this team at once, with players that do it all on team friendly contracts. Especially when the team has a bad reputation.
It is not that I was aiming to fix everything at once. But I can't be happy with a move that completely neglects a huge need. Again, we were dead last in rebounding, and in conceding second chance points. The addition of Saric does nothing to help in that regard and the issue won't be offset by what he provides on the other side of the court.
Mediocre/flawed vs average. It's basically semantics to me. The problem I have is that there are many kinds of 'average starters'.I'd say Rubio and Saric are average starters, but even mediocre starters are a big improvement. We might even have a roster without glaring holes and logjams next year.
Before looking at his contract, I'll say that Rubio has my attention despite his shooting, because I want to see what he can do with Ayton and his impact on Booker by not having him do everything at all times. But again, we were #30 last year in 3pt shooting. I wonder if it would have been better looking at other PGs with lesser passing skills but more well rounded (like Jones and, of course, Brogdon). Now, given the deal Rubio got, I am pretty disappointed.
With Saric, I can't remove the thought of 'weakness' from my head. He'll show IQ, fire and offensive talent, but I dread what will happen on the other side of the court near the rim. Ayton better be ready.
Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:18 am
We had no PF last year so Saric being a 6-10 PF, even a stretch one, is an improvement. TJ was not a PF nor a shooter. They don't compare as rebounders or shooters as Saric is better at both. So you complain about not addressing our rebounding, and then say we were 30th in 3pt shooting - both of which Saric addresses. Rubio will get guys like Booker, Bridges and Oubre...and Saric, good to great looks.
Sometimes it's less about individual stats and talent and how guys fit together. Our rosters the past 4-5 years have been terribly unbalanced and had pieces that just didn't fit. I think where we stand now is a major upgrade.
Sometimes it's less about individual stats and talent and how guys fit together. Our rosters the past 4-5 years have been terribly unbalanced and had pieces that just didn't fit. I think where we stand now is a major upgrade.
Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:43 am
I agree with ShelC, at least for 3pt shooting. The reasons they sucked were probably deeper than just lack of talent.
Warren had 0.7 offensive rebounds per year last year, hardly terrific
Not that I like how he was dumped. And I agree, Ayton better be ready. He was the #1 pick based on his physical gifts after all. Board man gets paid!
Warren had 0.7 offensive rebounds per year last year, hardly terrific
Not that I like how he was dumped. And I agree, Ayton better be ready. He was the #1 pick based on his physical gifts after all. Board man gets paid!Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:52 am
i'd rather sign saric if it can be done sooner over oubre.
Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:54 am
I choose to be hopeful over Rubio. The staff needs to encourage him to focus on focusing on high % scoring for him...on using his assets, Ayton, Booker, etc. I'd say I'd rather see your scoring drop a little, but his % and apg go up. In an ideal world, we get a speed game going and get aggressive on attacking also.
I think this...and some emergence from someone else on the roster, some x factor...yes, we need a little luck...and we all might be pleasantly surprised.
I think this...and some emergence from someone else on the roster, some x factor...yes, we need a little luck...and we all might be pleasantly surprised.
Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:55 am
We shall see...Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:19 am25 wins is what has crossed my mind too. The improvement will be marginal, in my opinion.
Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:26 am
Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:31 am
Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:45 am
Ooh. The sarcastic side of INF is coming out in its full glory!INFORMER wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:52 pmI would like to keep Oubre, but the Suns spent a lotto pick on Cam Johnson, so he must be awesome. Plus there is Bridges. Those are two guys that can man the small forward position.
After what they gave Rubio, I don't see how they can agree to a reasonable deal. It will have to be $20-21 million per season.
Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:48 am
Add 3/30 for Satoransky and 2/12 for Ish
Who got the best deal?
Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:51 am
Would have hated the Rozier, Joseph, Hill, Rose signings.
Beverley and Satoransky got the most reasonable deals.
Beverley and Satoransky got the most reasonable deals.
Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:54 am
3/30 for Satoransky is a really good deal in my opinion.
Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:06 am
I think we saw what this team is capable of with the 2 wins against Milwaukee and 1 against Denver. Those were with no PF and backup(barely) PGs. Now we have capable players at both positions. A PG that can pass is huge. It seemed like point Book looked away from Ayton and didn’t like to pass to him. Rubio will be a very different story.
I’m cautiously optimistic about this team as constituted.
I’m cautiously optimistic about this team as constituted.
Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:08 am
Yeah but I just don't see him as a guy who could command the ball as a starting PG next to Booker. In my view, Sato is a lot like Johnson - a third, combo guard. $10 million might be a solid deal for the production, but if what you need is a PG, that deal misses the mark a bit.wpmiller42 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:54 am3/30 for Satoransky is a really good deal in my opinion.
I've been struggling with my Rubio hate for months but the deal makes sense. I wanted a pure PG to run this team, and if I wanted one with shooting, the only other one available was Chris Paul. Rubio comes $20 mil per cheaper, so....
There are lots of reasons to think Rubio could have the best years of his career here. We're a faster paced team than the Jazz, Ayton may be a better fit than Gobert, the Jazz didn't have pure scorers whereas we have Booker, Oubre and Ayton for Rubio to throw the ball to. If Rubio gets back to that 8-9 APG range, I expect we'll compete for a playoff spot.
I think the FO may have outsmarted me on this one. If they're right about Rubio, they'll deserve all the credit in the world. I'm baking a crow pie, and I hope I get to eat it.
Re: Suns sign Rubio
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:10 am
That would be one of the biggest improvements in nba history. 20 game improvements don't happen every year.iLLmatic wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:20 pmWe just need to win more than 19 games this upcoming season and I'll consider this off season progress.da_suns_fan wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:17 pmPut it this way: Jazz sure are excited to bring Conley in as Rubio's replacement next year.
Of course you have to shoot. Teams are averaging 35 3pt attempts in the modern NBA. Its all about 3pt shooting and spacing. This is why neither Wolves nor the Jazz thought Rubio was worth keeping.
Horrible signing.