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Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:13 pm
by Indy
Shabazz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:46 pm
I have a hard time believing that Robert Sarver called Ayton a “Lazy [slur]” period, let alone in earshot of others. That’s a David Duke-level of racism and hubris. I don’t doubt that he called him “lazy” but my feeling is the rest was tacked on in a case of broken telephone or conflating the stories.
Based on Sarver admitting to saying that word, and also the report of him saying it when referencing hiring Watson, I can easily imagine him saying it. Even if he was 'joking' when he said it.
About the "David Duke-level racism" comment. I don't want to conflate the two. They are both awful, and deserve consequence. But Duke actively works to rally people and bring harm to POC on a large scale. Sarver sounds like your typical racist in this country, not advocating for the extinction of POC.
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:29 pm
by JeremyG
I found the audio and it sounds like Bickley doesn't have his own direct source for it, but it does sound like another media member heard it from someone other than through the Jalen Rose comment:
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:37 pm
by Shabazz
That was hyperbole, but I also think there are levels to the “typical American racist” that you reference. While all terrible, it’s one thing to repeat a rap lyric or what a player said back to him (which Sarver admitted to doing) and a whole other thing to publicly address an African American as what Rose said he did.
If there was a trusted source verifying that he actually said that, I think we’d be seeing a much bigger reaction from the players. It just seems a bridge too far for me. I can’t stand Sarver, think he’s arrogant, cheap, meddling, all of it. I don’t think he’s that dumb.
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:37 pm
by JeremyG
Indy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:13 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:46 pm
I have a hard time believing that Robert Sarver called Ayton a “Lazy [slur]” period, let alone in earshot of others. That’s a David Duke-level of racism and hubris. I don’t doubt that he called him “lazy” but my feeling is the rest was tacked on in a case of broken telephone or conflating the stories.
Based on Sarver admitting to saying that word, and also
the report of him saying it when referencing hiring Watson, I can easily imagine him saying it. Even if he was 'joking' when he said it.
About the "David Duke-level racism" comment. I don't want to conflate the two. They are both awful, and deserve consequence. But Duke actively works to rally people and bring harm to POC on a large scale. Sarver sounds like your typical racist in this country, not advocating for the extinction of POC.
It was actually at the hiring of Lindsey Hunter. I don't think anyone said they heard him say it about Watson, just that he used similar reasoning for that hire as well.
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:01 pm
by Split T
If the Ayton comment is real, it’s definitely the worst use of the word. Any use of the n-word by a white person is unacceptable, but this would be a different level of unacceptable. This would be the only instance of him using it in a directly negative connotation and directed towards a specific person(Ayton). Also it would be an extremely current anecdote, one where Sarver could not say was a mistake of the past and that he’s learned/changed. If true, and provable, this would force Sarver out I believe.
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:02 pm
by JeremyG
NEW STORY from Baxter Holmes:
Penny Sarver, wife of Robert Sarver, sent messages to three former Phoenix Suns employees
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/325 ... -employees
"This is Penny Sarver," one message began. "I know a lot of bridges were burned between you and Robert and you are very bitter. I want to remind you that real lives are at stake here."
Later, the message added, "Please put your hatred aside and realize the hurt you are causing by spreading lies and fabrications. Is your time in the spotlight that important? If something happens to one of my children, I will hold you and Earl Watson personally responsible. Think about your own child for a second and imagine the tables turned."
And yet she claims: "Any suggestion that I tried to 'intimidate' anyone is as silly as it is wrong and outrageous."
LOL.
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:18 pm
by Split T
This isn’t looking good for the Sarvers. How does she know who to message? She must know who Robert said the things he’s accused of to. Which means he had to actually say them, right?
And ya, she’s definitely threatening and trying to intimidate here. Why does she think her kids are at risk? Only at risk of finding out there father is a terrible human. This is going to be rough, I really hope there is a huge smoking gun that ends this quickly and we can move on.
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:19 pm
by Mori Chu
Wow. That's pretty much Accused-of-Wrongdoing 101, you don't go texting everybody warning them not to tattle on you. There are records of those messages and they can come back to haunt you.
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:26 pm
by Indy
Shabazz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:37 pm
That was hyperbole, but I also think there are levels to the “typical American racist” that you reference. While all terrible, it’s one thing to repeat a rap lyric or what a player said back to him (which Sarver admitted to doing) and a
whole other thing to publicly address an African American as what Rose said he did.
If there was a trusted source verifying that he actually said that, I think we’d be seeing a much bigger reaction from the players. It just seems a bridge too far for me. I can’t stand Sarver, think he’s arrogant, cheap, meddling, all of it. I don’t think he’s
that dumb.
It isn't just one person saying Sarver used that word to describe Black people.
But obviously ESPN didn't have enough info to keep the part about Ayton in the story. So maybe that source is not as reliable as the other sources for the other times he said it.
And you can't tell me that a 50-60 year old white multimillionaire in this country doesn't know not to say that word, regardless if he is quoting lyrics or repeating a story or attacking someone. If he did any of those things, he is a racist.
(By the way, it is interesting to me that very few people are talking about how awful Sarver is across the board, and are focusing on his racism. The guy is pure trash, and sounds like he surrounded himself with more people that enable him. I knew the staff had tons of turn over year to year, but didn't know how bad it was until recently.)
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:26 pm
by Indy
JeremyG wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:02 pm
NEW STORY from Baxter Holmes:
Penny Sarver, wife of Robert Sarver, sent messages to three former Phoenix Suns employees
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/325 ... -employees
"This is Penny Sarver," one message began. "I know a lot of bridges were burned between you and Robert and you are very bitter. I want to remind you that real lives are at stake here."
Later, the message added, "Please put your hatred aside and realize the hurt you are causing by spreading lies and fabrications. Is your time in the spotlight that important? If something happens to one of my children, I will hold you and Earl Watson personally responsible. Think about your own child for a second and imagine the tables turned."
And yet she claims: "Any suggestion that I tried to 'intimidate' anyone is as silly as it is wrong and outrageous."
LOL.
Shabazz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:37 pm
That was hyperbole, but I also think there are levels to the “typical American racist” that you reference. While all terrible, it’s one thing to repeat a rap lyric or what a player said back to him (which Sarver admitted to doing) and a whole other thing to publicly address an African American as what Rose said he did.
If there was a trusted source verifying that he actually said that, I think we’d be seeing a much bigger reaction from the players. It just seems a bridge too far for me. I can’t stand Sarver, think he’s arrogant, cheap, meddling, all of it.
I don’t think he’s that dumb.
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:39 pm
by ShelC
Of course his wife's name would be Penny.
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:54 pm
by JeremyG
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:19 pm
Wow. That's pretty much Accused-of-Wrongdoing 101, you don't go texting everybody warning them not to tattle on you. There are records of those messages and they can come back to haunt you.
Yeah, she obviously didn't consult any lawyers first. It was probably just on her own, like she claimed, in the heat of the moment. Very foolish.
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:56 pm
by JeremyG
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:02 pm
by JeremyG
March 4, 2019 is when ESPN published this story which included stuff about Sarver meddling with the coaches, including this as the very start to the article:
ASK ANYONE WHO has come through the Phoenix Suns organization over the past decade, and they'll likely have a Robert Sarver story.
One longtime former player remembers the owner barging into the locker room following a loss to officiously instruct big men on how to set better screens. A former assistant coach was floored when Sarver confronted his boss on the way from the court to the coaches' office immediately after the buzzer to berate him on his substitution patterns. Another former coach was taken aback when Sarver marched into the head coach's office at halftime and insisted the team run a trap at an opposing point guard who had abused the Suns' defense.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/260 ... ont-office
March 30, 2019 (
after the article was already published) is when this incident happened:
On March 30, 2019, the Suns were home against a short-handed Memphis Grizzlies team. Center Richaun Holmes was out due to a migraine and Ayton had rolled his ankle late in the third quarter. In their absence, Grizzlies center Jonas Valanciunas dominated, scoring 14 of his 34 points in a decisive fourth quarter for a 120-115 Memphis win. The loss dropped the Suns to 17-60.
Immediately after the game, according to staffers, Sarver marched into the coaches locker room and unloaded, berating head coach Igor Kokoskov and his assistants, demanding answers as to why they didn't "make any adjustments" to stop the burly Grizzlies center.
Veteran assistant Joe Prunty, who did not respond to a request for comment, spoke up, saying the short-handed Suns had made several in-game adjustments -- fronting Valanciunas, doubling him on the catch, explaining other basketball minutiae.
"Joe starts throwing all the s--- at him, [and] the guy has no idea what any of that means," said one former coach, details that others in the room confirmed. Sarver, livid, marched toward the door and screamed "No adjustments!" on his way out.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/324 ... m-misogyny
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:02 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
I don't have a problem with Sarver being upset when the team wasn't playing well or opponents were having a good game. Coaches and players often talk about "taking out" opponents and it doesn't mean they're intentionally trying to hurt them.
I had a problem with Sarver failing to recognize his own shortcomings as an employer and leader of the organization that led to those poor performances, but that's not what Vince Carter is talking about.
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:06 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
The Penny Sarver stuff is incredibly tone deaf, but what else would you expect? They clearly live in a bubble outside of typical social norms.
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:10 pm
by JeremyG
It sounds like Vince is convinced he wanted him injured:
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:18 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
I like Vince Carter, and I dislike Robert Sarver. But that's not enough for me to extract nuanced meaning from an interaction that's being second-hand sourced.
This stuff just feels like ESPN filling airtime, which is why I don't watch ESPN.
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:01 pm
by Shabazz
The Vince Carter Experience for the Suns was basically the exact opposite of the Grant Hill experience. He clearly loafed it while he was here. One of my least favorite Suns ever.
Re: Allegations of racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns: Inside Robert Sarver's 17-year tenure as owner
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:13 pm
by pickle
He was known as a great vet at all his other late career stops tho. Maybe this is a good time to look within a bit. We haven’t seemed to have kept too many recent players onboard compared with other franchises …