First Presidential debate: Mon 9/26

[Nodack]

Both candidates are flawed.

I think Trump is a total fraud and a disaster for America if elected. Besides that I really really don't like the guy. It's obvious to me he only cares about himself, dislikes minorities, respects nobody and thinks he is the greatest person ever born. He is already such an embarrassment to America. The world is scared shitless of the guy like they are NK's leader. How anybody believes what he is selling is mind boggling.

I don't really like Hillary but, she isn't going to do something stupid like I believe "Why can't we use nukes" Trump will. I think Hillary is par for the course. The course we are going isn't that bad at all. Certainly not as bad as the GOP is trying no to make it.

[Mori Chu]

I do think of it as a "lesser of two evils" situation. But I think she is *way* less "evil" than he is. She is intelligent, experienced, and qualified. She's just a slimy career politician who clearly doesn't think normal rules apply to her, and she isn't going to really change anything or bring about any sort of revolution. But that is in a whole different league to me than somebody who might literally bring about the ruin of the country. Hillary while imperfect is qualified for the job; Trump is unqualified and inappropriate in a way that is rare for a candidate. Romney was qualified; McCain was qualified. Trump is a black swan.

[Indy]

I do think of it as a "lesser of two evils" situation. But I think she is *way* less "evil" than he is. She is intelligent, experienced, and qualified. She's just a slimy career politician who clearly doesn't think normal rules apply to her, and she isn't going to really change anything or bring about any sort of revolution. But that is in a whole different league to me than somebody who might literally bring about the ruin of the country. Hillary while imperfect is qualified for the job; Trump is unqualified and inappropriate in a way that is rare for a candidate. Romney was qualified; McCain was qualified. Trump is a black swan.

Don't be racist.

[Indy]

I do think of it as a "lesser of two evils" situation. But I think she is *way* less "evil" than he is. She is intelligent, experienced, and qualified. She's just a slimy career politician who clearly doesn't think normal rules apply to her, and she isn't going to really change anything or bring about any sort of revolution. But that is in a whole different league to me than somebody who might literally bring about the ruin of the country. Hillary while imperfect is qualified for the job; Trump is unqualified and inappropriate in a way that is rare for a candidate. Romney was qualified; McCain was qualified. Trump is a black swan.

I honestly believe every election for President is the lesser of two evils argument. Nobody is perfect, and nobody that wants to be the most powerful person in the world is doing it for all the right reasons. That just isn't how the psyche works.

I am completely with you on your summary of the two. I see Trump as a racist, bigoted, misogynist, and his legitimacy as a candidate brings down the entire country. I think that if the true reporters in this country were doing their job when he announced his candidacy, instead of treating him like a side-show, he wouldn't have won the primary. If half of this stuff came out a year ago, we would likely be looking at a very different election.

[ShelC]

I do think of it as a "lesser of two evils" situation. But I think she is *way* less "evil" than he is. She is intelligent, experienced, and qualified.

I've said it before...Trump is dangerous because he doesn't know what he's doing. Hillary's dangerous because she's DOES know what she's doing. I also don't think she's much of a politician and we'll see another 4 years of gridlock and hearings/inquiries/subpoenas from the GOP. She's just been in the game for 25+ years and it's "her time". It's been her nomination from the start, and I blame the Dems for that; just like I blame the GOP for Trump, but for the opposite reason.

I think that if the true reporters in this country were doing their job when he announced his candidacy, instead of treating him like a side-show, he wouldn't have won the primary.

I'm not so sure about that. Early on, everyone treated him like a sideshow - especially the GOP. But he tapped into something and nothing stopped his momentum. How many inappropriate things has he said, how many insults, tweets, etc from the very start? It doesn't matter. He just barrels on and with our news cycle, nothing seems to stick with him. He's checked the box on everything that should bring a candidate down, and it doesn't matter.

[Indy]

I think now that he is the nominee, there are 45% of the country that will vote for him no matter what. But I think a lot of those folks would have chosen a different candidate if some of the more recent items had been vetted back then. I get what you are saying with him tapping into that white, non-college educated, older crowd. And they are a huge voting block. I just think a lot of them would have had second thoughts about casting a vote for him if they went back in time.

[O_Gardino]

In this case, the lesser of two evils isn't less enough for me. So I'm voting 3rd party.

[Superbone]

In this case, the lesser of two evils isn't less enough for me. So I'm voting 3rd party.

The only problem is that is a non-vote if we're being honest. It's great that you're exercising your right but it will have no effect on the outcome of the election. Am I wrong?

[Cap]

In this case, the lesser of two evils isn't less enough for me. So I'm voting 3rd party.

Do you believe that Johnston or Stein (or whichever 3rd party candidate you plan to vote for) would make a better President than Clinton?

[O_Gardino]

In this case, the lesser of two evils isn't less enough for me. So I'm voting 3rd party.

The only problem is that is a non-vote if we're being honest. It's great that you're exercising your right but it will have no effect on the outcome of the election. Am I wrong?

Every vote is a vote. I don't believe in non-vote votes. My non-vote is the best vote. It's like a super-vote. There, now I'm ready to enter the presidential debate.

Is it a non-vote because my candidate won't win? If so, will Trump voters wish they had voted for Hillary if she wins? To me, voting is not like betting. I'm not trying to predict the winner, and the outcome of the vote won't change my mind about the fitness of the candidates. It's about living with my conscience and knowing I used my vote for justice, peace, and the benefit of my neighbors. If I vote for somebody, I share the responsibility for their actions, and in this election, I don't want to share the responsibility for Hillary or Trump.

On a political theory level, the difference between not voting and voting third party, is that the major political parties don't care about non-voters. They do want to capture the votes of people who do vote. Voting 3rd party lets folks in the system know that I vote and I care, and I didn't care for their candidates. Now, I don't believe that this era of either dems or reps gives 2 shits. But I do hold out some hope that the republican party will be replaced in the next couple of decades. I want potential political startups to know that there are votes out there for them.

[O_Gardino]

In this case, the lesser of two evils isn't less enough for me. So I'm voting 3rd party.

Do you believe that Johnston or Stein (or whichever 3rd party candidate you plan to vote for) would make a better President than Clinton?

That's the challenge with voting 3rd party! Most of the candidates are single issue candidates and wouldn't really be able to perform all of the duties of the president. That's why I mostly vote major party candidates.

This time I may settle for Johnson, but there are some really interesting candidates if you go for the lesser known ones.

[Cap]

Are you voting Johnson because you believe he'd be better than Clinton, or is it a protest vote?

If Johnson and Clinton had equal chances to win and your vote were the potential swing vote, would you still vote for Johnson over Clinton?

ETA: Princess appears not to be a registered write-in candidate in AZ. Clinton, Trump, Johnson and Stein will be the only names on the ballot. Registered write-in candidates include Evan McMullin and a bunch of people you've never heard of. http://apps.azsos.gov/election/2016/General/home.htm

[Indy]

In this case, the lesser of two evils isn't less enough for me. So I'm voting 3rd party.

Do you believe that Johnston or Stein (or whichever 3rd party candidate you plan to vote for) would make a better President than Clinton?

That is my problem. I am not a fan of Clinton, but I am truly scared by what Trump represents as person, much less the POTUS. So if I could pick any of the 4 that are running, I would still go with Clinton, because I don't think Johnson or Stein are capable of more than 10-15% of what is required. If I had to pick between one of them and Trump, I would go with either of them over Trump, no question.

[AmareIsGod]

I don't understand how people see a media bias when it comes to Trump. He is DOING and SAYING the things that are being reported. It's just a fact. Clinton can literally sit around doing nothing and just let Trump self destruct. He went on some epic rant the other day during his campaign trail in Pennsylvania.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... nsylvania/

The rally started more than an hour and 40 minutes late because heavy fog delayed Trump’s arrival. His supporters grew tired of his looping musical playlist, at one point chanting: “Turn it off! Turn it off!”

When Trump finally took the stage, it was clear that he was worked up about something as he quickly rushed through his usual talking points. He read the first sentence of the prepared statement: “A new audio tape that has surfaced — just yesterday — from another one of Hillary’s high-roller fundraisers shows her demeaning and mocking Bernie Sanders and all of his supporters.”

Rather than continuing, Trump demeaned and mocked Sanders himself, saying that he has “a much bigger movement than Bernie Sanders ever had” and that he has “much bigger crowds than Bernie Sanders ever had.” Trump accused Sanders of tarnishing his legacy by making a “deal with the devil” and supporting Clinton.

“Crazy Bernie,” Trump said at one point.

...

He reflected on how his movement has “the smartest people… the sharpest people… the most amazing people.” He said the pundits — “most of them aren’t worth the ground they’re standing on, some of that ground could be fairly wealthy ground” — have never seen a phenomenon like this.

...

He told the crowd to get a group of friends together on Election Day, vote and then go to “certain areas” and “watch” the voters there. "I hear too many bad stories, and we can't lose an election because of you know what I'm talking about,” Trump said. “So, go and vote and then go check out areas because a lot of bad things happen, and we don't want to lose for that reason.”

...

He recounted how the “dopes at CNN” and “phony pundits” refused to acknowledge how well he was doing during the primaries. “Then we started getting 52 percent, 58 percent, 66 percent, 78 percent, 82 percent," Trump said, not making clear what those numbers mean. "And they just didn’t understand what was going on.”

...

He said Clinton could not fight bad trade deals or Russian President Vladimir Putin because “she can't make it 15 feet to her car,” alluding to video that showed Clinton buckling as she unexpectedly left a 9/11 memorial service early. Her doctor later said she had pneumonia. Trump then imitated Clinton by flailing his arms and jostling side to side. He walked unsteadily away from the podium as if he were about to fall over. “Folks, we need stamina,” Trump said. “We need energy.”

...

“Oh, I could be doing the ‘Apprentice’ right now,” Trump said at one point, seeming to harken back to a happier time in his life. “I loved it — 14 seasons. How good was that? Tremendous success. They wanted to extend — I could be doing the ‘Apprentice’ now. Somehow I think this is a little bit more important. Do we agree? Just a little bit?”

...

“Hillary Clinton’s only loyalty is to her financial contributors and to herself,” Trump said. “I don’t even think she’s loyal to Bill, if you want to know the truth.”

The crowd gasped and many shouted: “Ohhhhh!”

Trump shrugged.

“And really, folks,” Trump continued, “really, why should she be? Right? Why should she be?”

...

He pursed his lips as his supporters interrupted him with another “lock her up” chant. He reminded everyone that Bill Clinton was impeached because “everyone forgets.” He accused the media of allowing Clinton to “get away with murder.” He said African Americans will vote for him because he will fix their impoverished, dangerous neighborhoods that are “worse than war zones.”

“People walk to the office, they walk to get a loaf of bread, they get shot, their child gets shot,” Trump said.

...

“We are going to make America wealthy again,” Trump said as he wrapped up. “We are going to make America strong again. We are going to make America powerful again. We are going to make America safe again. And we are going to make America great again.”

"Well AIG, that's a left wing biased media source... Blah blah blah."

Umm, most of that are actual fucking quotes of the ridiculous shit he said. And he does this OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. Clinton sucks. But she's not INSANE. I can't believe we've gotten to this point where it's even a debate as to whether or not he should be the next POTUS. Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME? How sad we've become as people that we're now okay with a sexist, racist narcissist become the potential President. He's literally a person that thinks crowd sizes (that are full of white men, very few minorities and very few feminists) and dick size are credentials to lead a country.

[Superbone]

In this case, the lesser of two evils isn't less enough for me. So I'm voting 3rd party.

The only problem is that is a non-vote if we're being honest. It's great that you're exercising your right but it will have no effect on the outcome of the election. Am I wrong?

Every vote is a vote. I don't believe in non-vote votes. My non-vote is the best vote. It's like a super-vote. There, now I'm ready to enter the presidential debate.

Is it a non-vote because my candidate won't win? If so, will Trump voters wish they had voted for Hillary if she wins? To me, voting is not like betting. I'm not trying to predict the winner, and the outcome of the vote won't change my mind about the fitness of the candidates.

No, not because they won't win but because Clinton or Trump is going to win and you're not affecting that outcome. That's not like betting.

It's about living with my conscience and knowing I used my vote for justice, peace, and the benefit of my neighbors. If I vote for somebody, I share the responsibility for their actions, and in this election, I don't want to share the responsibility for Hillary or Trump.

On a political theory level, the difference between not voting and voting third party, is that the major political parties don't care about non-voters. They do want to capture the votes of people who do vote. Voting 3rd party lets folks in the system know that I vote and I care, and I didn't care for their candidates. Now, I don't believe that this era of either dems or reps gives 2 s***. But I do hold out some hope that the republican party will be replaced in the next couple of decades. I want potential political startups to know that there are votes out there for them.

Thanks for that explanation. That makes a lot of sense to me.

[Superbone]

He told the crowd to get a group of friends together on Election Day, vote and then go to “certain areas” and “watch” the voters there. "I hear too many bad stories, and we can't lose an election because of you know what I'm talking about,” Trump said. “So, go and vote and then go check out areas because a lot of bad things happen, and we don't want to lose for that reason.”

What the heck does that mean?!

[AmareIsGod]

He told the crowd to get a group of friends together on Election Day, vote and then go to “certain areas” and “watch” the voters there. "I hear too many bad stories, and we can't lose an election because of you know what I'm talking about,” Trump said. “So, go and vote and then go check out areas because a lot of bad things happen, and we don't want to lose for that reason.”

What the heck does that mean?!

I think he's insinuating that people go out to certain polling places and intimidate the voters? I have no idea honestly. He just randomly says ridiculous stuff all the time.

[Nodack]

Tell us how you really feel AIG?



I can't see voting for Johnson at all. He doesn't know where any other countries are and he's trying to tell us that's a selling point because he won't bomb a country if he can't find it on the map. Asked which foreign leader he respected the most he couldn't come up with a single name, even a day later and tried to write it off as if there were no foreign leaders he respects but, I think it was because he just couldn't name any foreign leaders. I think I am more qualified than those two and I suck.

What's up with Bill Clinton? He just came out bashing Obamacare. WTF!! Even if he hates it it was a bad thing to say right before the election with Hillary attached to Obama. What a monumental blunder. I can only imagine the conversation between Hillary and Bill after that and Hillary and Obama who has been campaigning for her along with Michelle. Bill does have that look like he's not all there anymore.

His VP choice was asked about Hillary and he went into a long winded talk about how great a President she would be.

[Wally_West]

Trump urged America to watch a sex tape that doesn't exist at 3am.

[Nodack]

Not a sex tape but close.

http://nypost.com/2016/08/01/melania-tr ... -revealed/