Phx-Suns.Net

You know your bad when Dudley yells at you.

I had high hopes for Len but he just hasn't improved and a lot of his problems don't seem like something he will be able to fix with enough time. His bad hands. His awful post moves where he basically gift wraps a block to his defender.

Someone will probably pay him and we should let him walk. I would rather get destroyed by the few post players left in the game and have Bender start at center than bring Len back. I think our rebounding will be fine with all the athletic guys we have.

Indy wrote:

Ring_Wanted wrote:I love me some Big Sauce. Bringing him back is a must. This team needs his motor and chemistry, and of course his rebounding and strength (he even has a nice touch for layups). I am ready to move on from Len. Too bad this draft is not center/PF heavy.

My problem with moving on from Len, is that we then have no rim protection from the 5 spot. Chriss can get some, for sure, but it is when he is rotating down low from the perimeter. He isn't going to stand in the lane and deter shots. Len does a very good job of that, even if he doesn't log a lot of blocks.

Good point. Len is 17th in the NBA in blocks per game and 3rd in block percentage.

1. Rudy Gobert • UTA 6.4
2. Myles Turner • IND 5.9
3. Alex Len • PHO 5.1
4. Hassan Whiteside • MIA 5.1
5. Anthony Davis • NOP 5.0
6. Kristaps Porzingis • NYK 4.9
7. Giannis Antetokounmpo • MIL 4.7
8. DeAndre Jordan • LAC 4.2
9. Brook Lopez • BRK 4.2
10. Jerami Grant • TOT 4.2
11. Serge Ibaka • TOT 4.2
12. Robin Lopez • CHI 4.1
13. Bismack Biyombo • ORL 4.1
14. Clint Capela • HOU 4.1
15. Kevin Durant • GSW 3.8
16. Marc Gasol • MEM 3.8
17. Dwight Howard • ATL 3.6
18. Pau Gasol • SAS 3.5
19. Mason Plumlee • TOT 3.4
20. DeMarcus Cousins • TOT 3.4

Ring_Wanted wrote:Sitting Booker is the sensible thing to do. Imagine if he messed up his ankle trying to win this stupid game. Give the minutes to JJr.

I don't disagree. I just was curious what the source was. It's also a good tanking strategy to help us preserve the 2nd lottery spot over the Lakers. I'm greedy and don't want the tie.

EDC wrote:You know your bad when Dudley yells at you.

I had high hopes for Len but he just hasn't improved and a lot of his problems don't seem like something he will be able to fix with enough time. His bad hands. His awful post moves where he basically gift wraps a block to his defender.

Someone will probably pay him and we should let him walk. I would rather get destroyed by the few post players left in the game and have Bender start at center than bring Len back. I think our rebounding will be fine with all the athletic guys we have.

I think that what you and Ring are saying is fairly reasonable. If you are ok taking a hit, you can move on from Len. I'm not convinced we need that kind of traditional center, so you go "small" with one of our PF's, or you take a few loses looking for the right player.

But if you want a traditional center, he's one of the better ones out there. Not that he's great, but he rebounds, blocks shots, sets screens, and plays for his teammates.

Indy wrote:

Ring_Wanted wrote:I love me some Big Sauce. Bringing him back is a must. This team needs his motor and chemistry, and of course his rebounding and strength (he even has a nice touch for layups). I am ready to move on from Len. Too bad this draft is not center/PF heavy.

My problem with moving on from Len, is that we then have no rim protection from the 5 spot. Chriss can get some, for sure, but it is when he is rotating down low from the perimeter. He isn't going to stand in the lane and deter shots. Len does a very good job of that, even if he doesn't log a lot of blocks.

I think it would be a mistake to move on from him. He has shown improvement. Even at the very end of the season here I see him being more aggressive at getting to the hoop. It would be Robin Lopez all over again. I think he'll be a solid center in the league. We don't have to have all-stars at every position to be successful.

Cap wrote:I assume Watson didn't actually say tanking, but it was obvious enouch.

Watson didn't even confirm Booker was sitting. He said you'd have to watch the game tonight to see. I don't think there's a chance in hell he plays.

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Superbone wrote:

Indy wrote:

Ring_Wanted wrote:I love me some Big Sauce. Bringing him back is a must. This team needs his motor and chemistry, and of course his rebounding and strength (he even has a nice touch for layups). I am ready to move on from Len. Too bad this draft is not center/PF heavy.

My problem with moving on from Len, is that we then have no rim protection from the 5 spot. Chriss can get some, for sure, but it is when he is rotating down low from the perimeter. He isn't going to stand in the lane and deter shots. Len does a very good job of that, even if he doesn't log a lot of blocks.

I think it would be a mistake to move on from him. He has shown improvement. Even at the very end of the season here I see him being more aggressive at getting to the hoop. It would be Robin Lopez all over again. I think he'll be a solid center in the league. We don't have to have all-stars at every position to be successful.

Is that just his contract effort showing?

I am torn. I do expect him to become a decent 5 in the league if he leaves us. I just don't see him doing that here. It may be another RoLo situation again, but if he was never going to develop here, why waste time/money on him?

Superbone wrote:I think it would be a mistake to move on from him. He has shown improvement. Even at the very end of the season here I see him being more aggressive at getting to the hoop. It would be Robin Lopez all over again. I think he'll be a solid center in the league. We don't have to have all-stars at every position to be successful.

I don't think there's been a great deal of improvement. If the Len we have now is the Len we get, and if it costs say $15M, I think it makes sense for the franchise to gamble again via draft in the future. Certainly we don't have to have allstars at every position, but part of my approach has to do with the fact that we actually don't have said allstar talent at any position other than Booker. To me, it doesn't make sense to spend that kind of dough on a guy who overall is just average, when you can keep your flexibility and stil look for an athletic big. We need to preserve cap flexibility like crazy, or by the time Booker and hopefully one of the other kids gets their new contract, we are going to have a hard time putting talent and production around them.

If Len takes a two year deal, or third year team option, I could talk myself into keeping him, but if it's the market what dictates his price, I am ready to be out.

Indy wrote:

Superbone wrote:

Indy wrote:

Ring_Wanted wrote:I love me some Big Sauce. Bringing him back is a must. This team needs his motor and chemistry, and of course his rebounding and strength (he even has a nice touch for layups). I am ready to move on from Len. Too bad this draft is not center/PF heavy.

My problem with moving on from Len, is that we then have no rim protection from the 5 spot. Chriss can get some, for sure, but it is when he is rotating down low from the perimeter. He isn't going to stand in the lane and deter shots. Len does a very good job of that, even if he doesn't log a lot of blocks.

I think it would be a mistake to move on from him. He has shown improvement. Even at the very end of the season here I see him being more aggressive at getting to the hoop. It would be Robin Lopez all over again. I think he'll be a solid center in the league. We don't have to have all-stars at every position to be successful.

Is that just his contract effort showing?

I am torn. I do expect him to become a decent 5 in the league if he leaves us. I just don't see him doing that here. It may be another RoLo situation again, but if he was never going to develop here, why waste time/money on him?

I was the biggest proponent of Len coming up to the draft. Even I'm not sure that he's going to turn out anymore. He still might, but he still doesn't have the best hands and he will block or change a shot and then not get into position for the next one where you would think that he could. There has been times where he could have gotten 2-3 blocks on guys just by quickly getting into position after a block and challenging again. I don't know if he can fix his hands and I agree that he hasn't gotten much better at his mid-range shot. I kind of don't care if they bring him back anymore. Offer him the qualifying offer and then sign and trade him to a team that wants him.

If the Suns are trading pieces, or working on trading pieces, I would want them to look to get unprotected 1st round picks for the 2019 draft. Then, maybe they get something decent in next year's draft, but it doesn't look as good as this year. One of the nice things is that it looks like it's going to have many more bigs in it. 2019 might be the transcendent star draft with AZ native Marvin Bagley III should be available.

In2ition wrote:If the Suns are trading pieces, or working on trading pieces, I would want them to look to get unprotected 1st round picks for the 2019 draft. Then, maybe they get something decent in next year's draft, but it doesn't look as good as this year. One of the nice things is that it looks like it's going to have many more bigs in it. 2019 might be the transcendent star draft with AZ native Marvin Bagley III should be available.

As much as it looks like Bagley will be a star, I'd rather not be bad enough to be in the running for Bagley in 2019. Maybe Miami gets awful, and rolls their 2018 pick over to 2019 and we can have a Brooklyn/Boston thing going for us.

https://twitter.com/Gambo987/status/851840874443005952 I guess its official now?

Split T wrote:

In2ition wrote:If the Suns are trading pieces, or working on trading pieces, I would want them to look to get unprotected 1st round picks for the 2019 draft. Then, maybe they get something decent in next year's draft, but it doesn't look as good as this year. One of the nice things is that it looks like it's going to have many more bigs in it. 2019 might be the transcendent star draft with AZ native Marvin Bagley III should be available.

As much as it looks like Bagley will be a star, I'd rather not be bad enough to be in the running for Bagley in 2019. Maybe Miami gets awful, and rolls their 2018 pick over to 2019 and we can have a Brooklyn/Boston thing going for us.

Yeah, I don't want the Suns to be bad enough to get him, I want someone else to do the losing for the Suns and get him with their pick.

Indy wrote:

Superbone wrote:

Indy wrote:

Ring_Wanted wrote:I love me some Big Sauce. Bringing him back is a must. This team needs his motor and chemistry, and of course his rebounding and strength (he even has a nice touch for layups). I am ready to move on from Len. Too bad this draft is not center/PF heavy.

My problem with moving on from Len, is that we then have no rim protection from the 5 spot. Chriss can get some, for sure, but it is when he is rotating down low from the perimeter. He isn't going to stand in the lane and deter shots. Len does a very good job of that, even if he doesn't log a lot of blocks.

I think it would be a mistake to move on from him. He has shown improvement. Even at the very end of the season here I see him being more aggressive at getting to the hoop. It would be Robin Lopez all over again. I think he'll be a solid center in the league. We don't have to have all-stars at every position to be successful.

Is that just his contract effort showing?

I am torn. I do expect him to become a decent 5 in the league if he leaves us. I just don't see him doing that here. It may be another RoLo situation again, but if he was never going to develop here, why waste time/money on him?

That's a good question. I am torn as well. It's almost like a 50/50 call. I guess it depends on the contract. His minutes also haven't been the most consistent so I'm not sure it's safe to make a final judgement on him. He starts but then Williams comes in and plays major minutes. When Len has played decent minutes without lots of interruptions, he has put up pretty darn good numbers. Double doubles from the center position with a couple blocks here and there are nothing to sneeze at.

It's really not a 50/50 call. Len sucks. He can't even stay on the court long enough to make a real impact. Can't rely on a guy like that. Move on.

Obviously if he's making $6M a year we keep him (QO's a no-brainer) and he's making $20M a year we don't, I just don't know where to draw the line.

7-8 million per on a 2-3 year deal with a team option for the 3rd year would be my max

10-12 million a year is where I'd be comfortable keeping him at. 12 million really isn't all that much in today's nba. I've been pretty disapointed in Len though. He's got some useful skills, but I'm not convinced he'll ever be a positive offensive player and his defense is too inconsistent. He'll probably figure out the defense to some degree, eventually, but I don't want to pay him 15 million a year while he figures it out.

Split T wrote:10-12 million a year is where I'd be comfortable keeping him at. 12 million really isn't all that much in today's nba. I've been pretty disapointed in Len though. He's got some useful skills, but I'm not convinced he'll ever be a positive offensive player and his defense is too inconsistent. He'll probably figure out the defense to some degree, eventually, but I don't want to pay him 15 million a year while he figures it out.

That sounds about right money-wise.

specialsauce wrote:It's really not a 50/50 call. Len sucks. He can't even stay on the court long enough to make a real impact. Can't rely on a guy like that. Move on.

Moving on... From your post!