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Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:57 pm
by specialsauce
Cap wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:16 pm
In2ition wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:48 pm
Cap wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:16 pm
ShelC wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:09 am
Rozier? Isn't he a restricted FA? Or are you talking about Ariza/Anderson going out in the deal?
You’re right, he’s RFA. I made a mistake.
Still, I think the general principle holds when you’re not talking about a max player. I don’t want to trade a first round pick for something that could blow up in our faces this summer.
I agree. I think Rozier is overrated. He would provide pesky defense and shot creation, but he doesn't pass much better than Canaan, and he's not a great rebounder either. The Suns have been hesitant to give up a 1st round pick for him, with good reason. Celtics aren't going to match offers for Rozier, unless he signs for around $6 mil a year or less and showed that he loved being the 3rd string pg. Now, he's unhappy with his role...well that doesn't help his trade value for Boston. Boston thought they had their sleeper agent of Gambo that would roast and guilt the Suns into giving up a valuable 1st this year for a guy that could be the next Payton and the Suns figure out that he isn't the answer. He's kind of like Knight except you sacrifice shooting for some better defense, and I wasn't a big fan of Knight's shooting.
And bottom line with any sub-max RFA: if you’re willing to pay him more than anyone else is, you can probably pick him up as an RFA; if you’re not, you can very easily lose him as an RFA. ROFR isn’t worth much for such players.
Blah blah blah.
I just want some good basketball players. Terry Rozier is good, and much better than anyone we have. I would gladly trade the Milwaukee pick + Bender + Ariza for him if Celtics want and I would happily give him Jeff Teague money.
You guys are way too selective, hoping for the absolute perfect scenario to come along. We’ve been ass for 8 years and I just want to watch a competitive product that can become a contender with slight tweaks. Rozier would be another building block.
And no, I’m not content to ride it out and wait for the offseason to sign him. I’m sick and tired of 20 win seasons.
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:14 pm
by Mori Chu
In2ition wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:50 pm
I kind of think that the Suns, if they do make a slightly panicked trade, will trade the Mil pick and Anderson for Kevin Love, and shore up the rebounding and shooting. I'd feel better about that trade if Love didn't sign that extension.
I'd do that for sure.
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:45 pm
by TOO
specialsauce wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:57 pm
Cap wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:16 pm
In2ition wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:48 pm
Cap wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:16 pm
ShelC wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:09 am
Rozier? Isn't he a restricted FA? Or are you talking about Ariza/Anderson going out in the deal?
You’re right, he’s RFA. I made a mistake.
Still, I think the general principle holds when you’re not talking about a max player. I don’t want to trade a first round pick for something that could blow up in our faces this summer.
I agree. I think Rozier is overrated. He would provide pesky defense and shot creation, but he doesn't pass much better than Canaan, and he's not a great rebounder either. The Suns have been hesitant to give up a 1st round pick for him, with good reason. Celtics aren't going to match offers for Rozier, unless he signs for around $6 mil a year or less and showed that he loved being the 3rd string pg. Now, he's unhappy with his role...well that doesn't help his trade value for Boston. Boston thought they had their sleeper agent of Gambo that would roast and guilt the Suns into giving up a valuable 1st this year for a guy that could be the next Payton and the Suns figure out that he isn't the answer. He's kind of like Knight except you sacrifice shooting for some better defense, and I wasn't a big fan of Knight's shooting.
And bottom line with any sub-max RFA: if you’re willing to pay him more than anyone else is, you can probably pick him up as an RFA; if you’re not, you can very easily lose him as an RFA. ROFR isn’t worth much for such players.
Blah blah blah.
I just want some good basketball players. Terry Rozier is good, and much better than anyone we have. I would gladly trade the Milwaukee pick + Bender + Ariza for him if Celtics want and I would happily give him Jeff Teague money.
You guys are way too selective, hoping for the absolute perfect scenario to come along. We’ve been ass for 8 years and I just want to watch a competitive product that can become a contender with slight tweaks. Rozier would be another building block.
And no, I’m not content to ride it out and wait for the offseason to sign him. I’m sick and tired of 20 win seasons.
Terry Rozier isn't making this a non 20 win team. He's nothing special. Eric Bledsoe is better than Terry Rozier.
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:07 pm
by Cap
specialsauce wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:57 pm
Cap wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:16 pm
In2ition wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:48 pm
Cap wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:16 pm
ShelC wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:09 am
Rozier? Isn't he a restricted FA? Or are you talking about Ariza/Anderson going out in the deal?
You’re right, he’s RFA. I made a mistake.
Still, I think the general principle holds when you’re not talking about a max player. I don’t want to trade a first round pick for something that could blow up in our faces this summer.
I agree. I think Rozier is overrated. He would provide pesky defense and shot creation, but he doesn't pass much better than Canaan, and he's not a great rebounder either. The Suns have been hesitant to give up a 1st round pick for him, with good reason. Celtics aren't going to match offers for Rozier, unless he signs for around $6 mil a year or less and showed that he loved being the 3rd string pg. Now, he's unhappy with his role...well that doesn't help his trade value for Boston. Boston thought they had their sleeper agent of Gambo that would roast and guilt the Suns into giving up a valuable 1st this year for a guy that could be the next Payton and the Suns figure out that he isn't the answer. He's kind of like Knight except you sacrifice shooting for some better defense, and I wasn't a big fan of Knight's shooting.
And bottom line with any sub-max RFA: if you’re willing to pay him more than anyone else is, you can probably pick him up as an RFA; if you’re not, you can very easily lose him as an RFA. ROFR isn’t worth much for such players.
Blah blah blah.
I just want some good basketball players. Terry Rozier is good, and much better than anyone we have. I would gladly trade the Milwaukee pick + Bender + Ariza for him if Celtics want and I would happily give him Jeff Teague money.
You guys are way too selective, hoping for the absolute perfect scenario to come along. We’ve been ass for 8 years and I just want to watch a competitive product that can become a contender with slight tweaks. Rozier would be another building block.
And no, I’m not content to ride it out and wait for the offseason to sign him. I’m sick and tired of 20 win seasons.
Blah blah blah
Now that we have those pleasantries out of the way...
I don’t even know how to describe how incredibly short-sighted it would be to trade away a first-rounder for 60 games of Terry Rozier in a desperate (and likely to fail) attempt to make good on Bone’s over-29 bet. Yeah, you’re sick and tired, and those 60 games are now, and you care more about now than the future, but when that future gets here, you’d be pretty much guaranteed to regret the trade.
We’re not holding out for a perfect trade, just for a trade that’s better made than not made. Your proposal doesn’t come anywhere close to meeting that standard.
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:21 pm
by carey
I'm going to get killed for saying this, but I don't want to make any deals that make us better this year. We're almost 25% of the way through the season and we're the worst team in the league. Lets just get the most transcendent talent since LeBron to pair with Booker, Bridges and Ayton. That team would be a monster when we spend the rest of the $37M on a PG. (It'll be more like $29M because Zion will take $8M off as a #1 pick.)
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:33 pm
by Xylus
carey wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:21 pm
I'm going to get killed for saying this, but I don't want to make any deals that make us better this year. We're almost 25% of the way through the season and we're the worst team in the league. Lets just get the most transcendent talent since LeBron to pair with Booker, Bridges and Ayton. That team would be a monster when we spend the rest of the $37M on a PG. (It'll be more like $29M because Zion will take $8M off as a #1 pick.)
I agree with this. But if we're going to lose, we need to lose competitively. The team that we watched in the first 10 games of the season is going nowhere regardless of what draft pick we get. A competitive loser that develops a culture of accountability, and improves on its flaws as the season progresses, while losing 50-60 games, is one that can springboard into next season with some hope.
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:36 pm
by Cap
Xylus wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:33 pm
carey wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:21 pm
I'm going to get killed for saying this, but I don't want to make any deals that make us better this year. We're almost 25% of the way through the season and we're the worst team in the league. Lets just get the most transcendent talent since LeBron to pair with Booker, Bridges and Ayton. That team would be a monster when we spend the rest of the $37M on a PG. (It'll be more like $29M because Zion will take $8M off as a #1 pick.)
I agree with this. But if we're going to lose, we need to lose competitively. The team that we watched in the first 10 games of the season is going nowhere regardless of what draft pick we get. A competitive loser that develops a culture of accountability, and improves on its flaws as the season progresses, while losing 50-60 games, is one that can springboard into next season with some hope.
I’m not willing to trade any significant assets for something as vague as “developing a culture of accountability.” Stinks of “veteran leadership.”
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:41 pm
by Xylus
Cap wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:36 pm
Xylus wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:33 pm
carey wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:21 pm
I'm going to get killed for saying this, but I don't want to make any deals that make us better this year. We're almost 25% of the way through the season and we're the worst team in the league. Lets just get the most transcendent talent since LeBron to pair with Booker, Bridges and Ayton. That team would be a monster when we spend the rest of the $37M on a PG. (It'll be more like $29M because Zion will take $8M off as a #1 pick.)
I agree with this. But if we're going to lose, we need to lose competitively. The team that we watched in the first 10 games of the season is going nowhere regardless of what draft pick we get. A competitive loser that develops a culture of accountability, and improves on its flaws as the season progresses, while losing 50-60 games, is one that can springboard into next season with some hope.
I’m not willing to trade any significant assets for something as vague as “developing a culture of accountability.” Stinks of “veteran leadership.”
I'm not advocating for a trade.
I don't think "culture of accountability" is that vague. Players need to be held accountable by the coaching staff and teammates for poor effort. As a coach, reward players who play hard with the lion's share of PT. As a teammate, be vocal with players who half-ass.
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:43 pm
by Cap
Xylus wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:41 pm
Cap wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:36 pm
Xylus wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:33 pm
carey wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:21 pm
I'm going to get killed for saying this, but I don't want to make any deals that make us better this year. We're almost 25% of the way through the season and we're the worst team in the league. Lets just get the most transcendent talent since LeBron to pair with Booker, Bridges and Ayton. That team would be a monster when we spend the rest of the $37M on a PG. (It'll be more like $29M because Zion will take $8M off as a #1 pick.)
I agree with this. But if we're going to lose, we need to lose competitively. The team that we watched in the first 10 games of the season is going nowhere regardless of what draft pick we get. A competitive loser that develops a culture of accountability, and improves on its flaws as the season progresses, while losing 50-60 games, is one that can springboard into next season with some hope.
I’m not willing to trade any significant assets for something as vague as “developing a culture of accountability.” Stinks of “veteran leadership.”
I'm not advocating for a trade.
OK, I misunderstood.
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:59 pm
by In2ition
carey wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:21 pm
I'm going to get killed for saying this, but I don't want to make any deals that make us better this year. We're almost 25% of the way through the season and we're the worst team in the league. Lets just get the most transcendent talent since LeBron to pair with Booker, Bridges and Ayton. That team would be a monster when we spend the rest of the $37M on a PG. (It'll be more like $29M because Zion will take $8M off as a #1 pick.)
If I could get a guarantee that the Suns land this transcendent talent, I would be in, but at this point there isn't a huge difference in chance between the worst team and the 5th worst team. The only thing that being the worst team guarantees is that you can't get any worse than the 5th pick. I'd rather they compete every night, and I think their record is a little misleading right now. I think they are getting better as the season is going along and once the schedule becomes more favorable, they will be looking better and better and their W/L record will get better and better. The best part of that is that the odds in the lottery are a bit more flattened where even being the 10th worst team, they get a 14% chance to land a top 4 pick.
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:34 pm
by carey
I didn't say anything about not competing every night. What I don't want to do is give up assets like Warren or Jackson for a marginal upgrade this year that will get us to 25 wins. You want to cut bait with Ariza or Anderson? Sure, no worries. Just don't trade actual assets that we'll need after this season for a guy like Rozier or Beverley or whoever.
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:50 pm
by Superbone
Cap wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:07 pm
I don’t even know how to describe how incredibly short-sighted it would be to trade away a first-rounder for 60 games of Terry Rozier in a desperate (and likely to fail) attempt to make good on Bone’s over-29 bet. Yeah, you’re sick and tired, and those 60 games are now, and you care more about now than the future, but when that future gets here, you’d be pretty much guaranteed to regret the trade.
Hey, thanks for not forgetting about me. I'll sacrifice my $100 for the good of the team. Mt. Zion, here we come.
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:53 pm
by Superbone
Xylus wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:33 pm
carey wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:21 pm
I'm going to get killed for saying this, but I don't want to make any deals that make us better this year. We're almost 25% of the way through the season and we're the worst team in the league. Lets just get the most transcendent talent since LeBron to pair with Booker, Bridges and Ayton. That team would be a monster when we spend the rest of the $37M on a PG. (It'll be more like $29M because Zion will take $8M off as a #1 pick.)
I agree with this. But if we're going to lose, we need to lose competitively. The team that we watched in the first 10 games of the season is going nowhere regardless of what draft pick we get. A competitive loser that develops a culture of accountability, and improves on its flaws as the season progresses, while losing 50-60 games, is one that can springboard into next season with some hope.
I'll take that team last night for the rest of the season. They're working hard and making little improvements along the way. We're one more year away from what McD and Sarver thought, but that's OK.
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:56 pm
by Superbone
carey wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:34 pm
I didn't say anything about not competing every night. What I don't want to do is give up assets like Warren or Jackson for a marginal upgrade this year that will get us to 25 wins. You want to cut bait with Ariza or Anderson? Sure, no worries. Just don't trade actual assets that we'll need after this season for a guy like Rozier or Beverley or whoever.
I think
most of us are in agreement. No rash trades this year. Continue to improve and try to win every game with what we've got. If a good deal comes along, sure. But otherwise, play it out and play hard.
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:34 pm
by INFORMER
Sacramento is actually winning and they want to can their coach. They're trying to keep up with us in terms of being the worst run franchise.
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:46 pm
by INFORMER
ShelC wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:56 am
I think a deal like Anderson, Jackson, Bender, Melton and maybe a pick or two for Hayward and Rozier could help both teams? Too one sided in our favor?
Hayward has been a shell of his former self, and that's being generous. He hasn't been able to make shots. At all. Sure he can help with ballhandling/passing/basketball IQ, but is that worth $30 million a season?!
If Rozier is the main point of the deal, that would still be difficult to swallow. He has never even shot 40% from the field.
I'm not sure Brad Stevens signs off on dealing his basketball son.
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:54 pm
by INFORMER
specialsauce wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:57 pm
I just want some good basketball players. Terry Rozier is good, and much better than anyone we have. I would gladly trade the Milwaukee pick + Bender + Ariza for him if Celtics want and I would happily give him Jeff Teague money.
You guys are way too selective, hoping for the absolute perfect scenario to come along. We’ve been ass for 8 years and I just want to watch a competitive product that can become a contender with slight tweaks. Rozier would be another building block.
And no, I’m not content to ride it out and wait for the offseason to sign him. I’m sick and tired of 20 win seasons.
This is a great recipe for making the Washington Wizards.
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:48 pm
by Split T
If Washington is blowing things up I'd look at Beal. Could a Beal-Booker backcourt work? Probably take a lot to get him, but a Beal/Booker/Bridges/Warren/Ayton core is pretty solid.
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:53 pm
by Shabazz
Let's just get Satoransky and call it a day.
Re: Around the League: Week 6 11/19-11-25
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:07 pm
by TOO
INFORMER wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:54 pm
specialsauce wrote: ↑Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:57 pm
I just want some good basketball players. Terry Rozier is good, and much better than anyone we have. I would gladly trade the Milwaukee pick + Bender + Ariza for him if Celtics want and I would happily give him Jeff Teague money.
You guys are way too selective, hoping for the absolute perfect scenario to come along. We’ve been ass for 8 years and I just want to watch a competitive product that can become a contender with slight tweaks. Rozier would be another building block.
And no, I’m not content to ride it out and wait for the offseason to sign him. I’m sick and tired of 20 win seasons.
This is a great recipe for making the Washington Wizards.
Bravo.