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PUT SOME PLAYERS AROUND HIM. LIKE A FULL TEAM WITH PGS, PFS AND EVERYTHING!

What do you mean, "everything?" ...EVERYTHING!!!

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:12 pm

This is just frustration speaking. But if this fanbase truly believes we are better off without Booker, we deserve all we get.

I am curious how much better our team would be if we swapped out Booker for any other 2 guard in the league. Any of them. How much better are we?

Here are the top 10 guards in the league (based on Win Shares) that played at least 60% of their time at the 2...

Harden
Brogdon
Jrue
(Beal just missed the cut at 58% of his time at 2 this year, but he would be slotted here)
Redick
Luka (ugh)
Buddy
McCollum
Malik Beasley
Danny Green
Marcus Smart

I realize that some of these guys play distributor/offense runner from the 2, or even play different spots on defense (Luka), but if we swapped Booker for them, which clearly makes us a better team?

I count 2 that make us better, and a couple more that make us different but probably about the same.

Cap wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:29 pm

<Media redacted>

Thanks, Cap!

Indy wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:45 pm

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:12 pm

This is just frustration speaking. But if this fanbase truly believes we are better off without Booker, we deserve all we get.

I am curious how much better our team would be if we swapped out Booker for any other 2 guard in the league. Any of them. How much better are we?

Here are the top 10 guards in the league (based on Win Shares) that played at least 60% of their time at the 2...

Harden
Brogdon
Jrue
(Beal just missed the cut at 58% of his time at 2 this year, but he would be slotted here)
Redick
Luka (ugh)
Buddy
McCollum
Malik B*****y
Danny Green
Marcus Smart

I realize that some of these guys play distributor/offense runner from the 2, or even play different spots on defense (Luka), but if we swapped Booker for them, which clearly makes us a better team?

I count 2 that make us better, and a couple more that make us different but probably about the same.

Awesome post.

Bucktastic365 wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:36 pm

Booker is: points, turnovers, attitude.

Sad thing is.....I still love him; he's Kobe, if Kobe got sent to an expansion team.

Didn't that sort of happen? And didn't Kobe carry Kwame Brown and Smush Parker to the playoffs against us?

Superbone wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:30 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:52 am

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:44 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:02 pm

Completely abandon this concept of asking him or allowing him to create the offense.

Booker is given all of that offensive creation responsibility because he's literally the only player on the team who can create for himself or others with any consistency. For the second year in a row.

You think we'd look any better if Josh Jackson or Crawford or Okobo were given those responsibilities? I'm sure Booker would love nothing more than to play with someone who could ably share the burden.

This franchise has failed him.

THIS

<'Bone nods his head>

Yawn.
We have a 7 footer who is a better passer and more efficient than the rest of our team combined. USE HIM. And if the wings refuse, LOSE THEM. Period. That’s including Booker.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:34 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:30 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:52 am

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:44 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:02 pm

Completely abandon this concept of asking him or allowing him to create the offense.

Booker is given all of that offensive creation responsibility because he's literally the only player on the team who can create for himself or others with any consistency. For the second year in a row.

You think we'd look any better if Josh Jackson or Crawford or Okobo were given those responsibilities? I'm sure Booker would love nothing more than to play with someone who could ably share the burden.

This franchise has failed him.

THIS

<'Bone nods his head>

Yawn.
We have a 7 footer who is a better passer and more efficient than the rest of our team combined. USE HIM. And if the wings refuse, LOSE THEM. Period. That’s including Booker.

And what if HE refuses? If you hadn't noticed, the dude is PASSIVE.

Ayton is not passive in that context. He recognizes double teams very well and reacts quickly passing the ball. You can build a scheme to play inside out around him if you put three guys who shoot and move without the ball while Booker generates pressure on his own.

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:12 pm

This is just frustration speaking. But if this fanbase truly believes we are better off without Booker, we deserve all we get.

Ownership has shown they dont care one bit what the fanbase wants. If they did, we would have gotten a point guard in this last season...or the season before that. We would have gotten a coach with experience. We would have gotten a GM with experience.

So I don't think they wil try to move booker because of fan frustration. They will probably move him because he will request to be traded.

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:02 am

Ayton is not passive in that context. He recognizes double teams very well and reacts quickly passing the ball. You can build a scheme to play inside out around him if you put three guys who shoot and move without the ball while Booker generates pressure on his own.

Very clearly the coach is asking Ayton to set screens continuously for our below average swings to let them create the offense. Why? The only explanation is he is clueless.

Indy wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:45 pm

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:12 pm

This is just frustration speaking. But if this fanbase truly believes we are better off without Booker, we deserve all we get.

I am curious how much better our team would be if we swapped out Booker for any other 2 guard in the league. Any of them. How much better are we?

Here are the top 10 guards in the league (based on Win Shares) that played at least 60% of their time at the 2...

Harden
Brogdon
Jrue
(Beal just missed the cut at 58% of his time at 2 this year, but he would be slotted here)
Redick
Luka (ugh)
Buddy
McCollum
Malik B*****y
Danny Green
Marcus Smart

I realize that some of these guys play distributor/offense runner from the 2, or even play different spots on defense (Luka), but if we swapped Booker for them, which clearly makes us a better team?

I count 2 that make us better, and a couple more that make us different but probably about the same.

I don't know if "make us better" is the metric I am using in this context. We are horrendous; we could give Booker away for $20 and not be much worse. That doesn't mean Booker is bad or that we should not keep him.

Maybe another way of thinking of it is, what kind of players would we need to add around Booker to succeed? How does that compare to the players we'd need to add around other decent SGs to succeed?

I tend to dislike players with huge weaknesses that must be worked around, particularly if those weaknesses are key to their position. So, like, having a PG who doesn't pass/assist well; having a PF/C who doesn't defend or rebound well; having a 2-3 man who doesn't shoot well. If guys have those particular weaknesses, it is going to be extremely hard to build a team around them.

I don't think Booker has any crippling weaknesses like that. His defense is pretty bad, sure. But I think we can overcome it, and I don't think of it as a crippling weakness. We can still have a good team defense if our PG and one of our big men are good defenders.

I think with Booker you try to stay the course. Do your best this offseason to get a PG and PF; try to find some vets to keep the locker room cool and collected. Keep improving. Maybe find a new coach and/or GM. Despite how tragic we have been I could still see us turning this thing around in a single offseason if we played our cards right.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:02 pm

He is not a #1 on a winning team. He is awful with the ball in his hands.

I don't think either statement is true. The problem is that he is awful at playing point guard, and we're essentially running him as a point guard. He is also isn't as effective when playing without a legitimate, functional, offensive system.

Booker has his faults, and is not above reproach.
But he is a decent asset.
He's a somewhat flawed player on a poorly constructed team being mismanaged by unskilled coach, an amateurish front office, and one of the most deficient owners in NBA history.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:06 am

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:02 am

Ayton is not passive in that context. He recognizes double teams very well and reacts quickly passing the ball. You can build a scheme to play inside out around him if you put three guys who shoot and move without the ball while Booker generates pressure on his own.

Very clearly the coach is asking Ayton to set screens continuously for our below average swings to let them create the offense. Why? The only explanation is he is clueless.

I truly believe that if we had a good experienced coach, Ayton could be challenging Luka for rookie of the year. Not only would his scoring and assists be up, but his rebounding, blocked shots, and overall defensive energy would likely be way higher if the coach was utilizing his talent like he should be. It has to be demoralizing to him to just stand at the three point line setting screens all game.

I hate dribble handoffs. I hate our offense in general. I love watching Booker. Booker is the biggest reason i watch all our games and still enjoy, i really do, watching them.

trade the MFer

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:55 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:06 am

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:02 am

Ayton is not passive in that context. He recognizes double teams very well and reacts quickly passing the ball. You can build a scheme to play inside out around him if you put three guys who shoot and move without the ball while Booker generates pressure on his own.

Very clearly the coach is asking Ayton to set screens continuously for our below average swings to let them create the offense. Why? The only explanation is he is clueless.

I truly believe that if we had a good experienced coach, Ayton could be challenging Luka for rookie of the year. Not only would his scoring and assists be up, but his rebounding, blocked shots, and overall defensive energy would likely be way higher if the coach was utilizing his talent like he should be. It has to be demoralizing to him to just stand at the three point line setting screens all game.

I agree. Like Sauce, I also believe they are making him run too much. He is agile and fast for his size, but he is not some rim to rim runner you can afford to use mainly as a cog to set free perimeter players and then clean their mistakes. The guy is not perfect and I am fine with a learning curve from Ayton (for instance, how to put the ball on the floor around the FT line to take one drive to the basket) and can be patient with his development (focus to protec the rim), but the way the use him is ridiculous a lot of times. This will probably be the main cause in Igor's demise.

In general, isn't it clear that the team has been less than the sum of its parts for quite a few years now? Put a decent PG and a real stretch 4 on the roster, move towards an inside-out offense, and we'll see what Ayton and Booker are really made of. Which I suspect are 2nd team All-NBA types.

Let's stop agitating for pointless changes to the roster, unless it is something that makes sense (e.g. Warren for a PG or a stretch 4). I am disappointed that Igor couldn't rise to the challenge of being a head coach that builds around his talent (i.e. he's a great assistant and potentially a good head coach with the right roster) and I wonder if the team should find a head coach that preaches inside-out basketball.

virtual9mm wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:25 am

In general, isn't it clear that the team has been less than the sum of its parts for quite a few years now? Put a decent PG and a real stretch 4 on the roster, move towards an inside-out offense, and we'll see what Ayton and Booker are really made of. Which I suspect are 2nd team All-NBA types.

Let's stop agitating for pointless changes to the roster, unless it is something that makes sense (e.g. Warren for a PG or a stretch 4). I am disappointed that Igor couldn't rise to the challenge of being a head coach that builds around his talent (i.e. he's a great assistant and potentially a good head coach with the right roster) and I wonder if the team should find a head coach that preaches inside-out basketball.

Is Van Gundy available?