Phx-Suns.Net

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:34 pm

Cam Johnson vs. PJ Washington, two guys who didn't get extended. PJ is two years younger.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_fin ... =willigr01

I changed the criteria to just look at this past season. I didn't realize they were that close; I thought Cam had moved ahead of PJ, but honestly, that really isn't true. I'm also surprised to see PJ has better assist numbers.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:31 pm

Mikal signed for 4yr/$90M, so yeah, close to the same.

IMO, Mikal has one of the most team-friendly contracts in the league

I feel Bridges is kind of pricey, especially with his 3-point shooting taking a step back last season. Toronto got OG on a cheaper deal. I'm sure there would have been a team that would have offered Bridges 4 years/$100 million, so in that sense, yeah, it was a win for the Suns. But he still is an expensive role player.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:52 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:31 pm

Mikal signed for 4yr/$90M, so yeah, close to the same.

IMO, Mikal has one of the most team-friendly contracts in the league

I feel Bridges is kind of pricey, especially with his 3-point shooting taking a step back last season. Toronto got OG on a cheaper deal. I'm sure there would have been a team that would have offered Bridges 4 years/$100 million, so in that sense, yeah, it was a win for the Suns. But he still is an expensive role player.

It's still a bargain for a 1st team All-Defensive player. I also think Mikal will continue to grow his offensive skillset outside of spot up shooting. He's clearly added something every season in his career so far.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:55 pm

It's still a bargain for a 1st team All-Defensive player.

Guys like Marcus Smart, Tony Allen, Pat Beverly, Robert Covington etc. have all been All-NBA first teamers. I've never seen that honor as an automatic reason to back up the Brinks truck.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:55 pm

I also think Mikal will continue to grow his offensive skillset outside of spot up shooting.

Which will be great for him when he is negotiating his next contract.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:03 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:55 pm

It's still a bargain for a 1st team All-Defensive player.

Guys like Marcus Smart, Tony Allen, Pat Beverly, Robert Covington etc. have all been All-NBA first teamers. I've never seen that honor as an automatic reason to back up the Brinks truck.

Mikal is a significantly better offensive player than Beverley and Allen.

Marcus Smart has always been a bit of an enigma as a guard. No one trusted him to be a fulltime PG until recently and viewed his offense as a liability for many years. Of course we wish Mikal would do more offensively, but I don't think anyone from the Suns is terrified when he's making decisions on that end.

Bob Cov has had two seasons as good as Mikal's 2021-22 and they were in his 6th and 7th years, which was also included the only year he made 1st team All-Defense and got a significant pay raise. Mikal is way ahead of him in the development curve.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:35 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:22 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:28 pm

JJ was over 5 million…less than a million a year over the life of the contract. This is 13 million…3.25 million a year. Small enough that I do think we should have done it, but not as bad as passing on the JJ deal.

Yeah but this is almost twice as much money overall, so percentage-wise there is very little difference.

If this ends poorly, I guess we can bookend Sarver's time as owner with the Johnson & Johnson fiascos.

In what kind of math is 85 mil twice 75 mil?

He’s comparing Cam Johnson money to Joe Johnson money.

I dunno Cam was a risk either way at his ask.. Hopefully he improves stays healthy and we pay him next year.

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Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:55 pm

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:52 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:31 pm

Mikal signed for 4yr/$90M, so yeah, close to the same.

IMO, Mikal has one of the most team-friendly contracts in the league

I feel Bridges is kind of pricey, especially with his 3-point shooting taking a step back last season. Toronto got OG on a cheaper deal. I'm sure there would have been a team that would have offered Bridges 4 years/$100 million, so in that sense, yeah, it was a win for the Suns. But he still is an expensive role player.

It's still a bargain for a 1st team All-Defensive player. I also think Mikal will continue to grow his offensive skillset outside of spot up shooting. He's clearly added something every season in his career so far.

I've been impressed with his 3 point shooting in the preseason. I hope he can keep it up.

pickle wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:16 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:35 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:22 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:28 pm

JJ was over 5 million…less than a million a year over the life of the contract. This is 13 million…3.25 million a year. Small enough that I do think we should have done it, but not as bad as passing on the JJ deal.

Yeah but this is almost twice as much money overall, so percentage-wise there is very little difference.

If this ends poorly, I guess we can bookend Sarver's time as owner with the Johnson & Johnson fiascos.

In what kind of math is 85 mil twice 75 mil?

He’s comparing Cam Johnson money to Joe Johnson money.

So am I. What am I missing? Joe Johnson was offered 70 mil but wanted 75 mil. Cam Johnson was offered 75 mil but wanted 85 mil.

I recall it being in the 50 mil range but I haven’t done any research and don’t trust my memory …

We offered JJ 45 and he wanted 50. And it was over 6 years I believe…literally we offered 7.5 million a year and he wanted 8.3 million a year and we said no. Later we offered 10 million a year, but he got 13.5 with Atlanta.

https://www.espn.com/nba/columns/story? ... id=2120105

I was going from memory and thought it was 40M and 45M.

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:58 am

We offered JJ 45 and he wanted 50. And it was over 6 years I believe…literally we offered 7.5 million a year and he wanted 8.3 million a year and we said no. Later we offered 10 million a year, but he got 13.5 with Atlanta.

https://www.espn.com/nba/columns/story? ... id=2120105

Ah, thanks. I guess it was Atlanta's 70 million offer that I had remembered. According to the article, we offered him 60 million over 6 years.

Joe Johnson is a chiseled Yogi these days. Saw some recent pics of him with his shirt off. Hot damn.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:52 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:31 pm

Mikal signed for 4yr/$90M, so yeah, close to the same.

IMO, Mikal has one of the most team-friendly contracts in the league

I feel Bridges is kind of pricey, especially with his 3-point shooting taking a step back last season. Toronto got OG on a cheaper deal. I'm sure there would have been a team that would have offered Bridges 4 years/$100 million, so in that sense, yeah, it was a win for the Suns. But he still is an expensive role player.

I was disappointed that he took so few 3s last year. I think that is what tanked his percentage. (And to be clear, we are complaining about a 37% 3p%, so it isn't bad). He doubled his mid-range shots and took away from his 3s. I would be OK with that if those mid-range shots were him creating for himself, but they weren't--they were all assisted. In fact, the only guys to have more of their shots assisted last year were Jae and DA. We need Mikal to do more if we are still relying on an aging Chris Paul and Devin Booker as our 2 best players.

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 17, 2022 5:59 pm

Posting because I know Sauce would want to see this…

Why is anyone believing these numbers are real? I mean, it is flex. I know he supposedly has Book's brother as his source, and Cam's agent is Book's dad, but I just can't believe it until we hear some corroboration.

So I guess somebody in the organization lied to Gambo, claiming that the ownership situation would not impact the extension talks. That's pretty concerning going forward this season, as far as making moves.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 18, 2022 2:20 pm

So I guess somebody in the organization lied to Gambo, claiming that the ownership situation would not impact the extension talks. That's pretty concerning going forward this season, as far as making moves.

Or, and I am just spitballing here, maybe Gambo just says shit without actual sources with actual knowledge of the actual situation.

Would have been fine with a Cam extension but I'm also fine with a show and prove on him too. The ownership should be figured out by next summer and I'm sure they'll match if he has a good year.

My goals for him are to stay healthy and consistent. After that Knicks game injury he was an awful shooter and didn't command much respect from defenders. NBA is a "what have you done for me lately" league and that is why I am using that timeframe for him from last year.

I am still kinda worried about this team in general. Lots of healthy-ish bodies in the west now, offseason turmoil with both Ayton, then Sarver, then Jae, and now maybe an awkwardness with Cam, CP a year older, bench a little thinner, tough schedule to start. I really won't be surprised if they go something like 1-4 or 1-5 to start. I hope to be wrong.