Phx-Suns.Net

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:28 pm

Cooked by two former Clippers, Jackson and Jordan.

Harden with 7 shots, 4 assists, and 3 turnovers in 36 minutes is impressively terrible.

Yet weirdly only he and PJ Tucker (6mins) had a positive +/- for the Clippers

Pretty bad night for LA basketball generally. You just hate to see it don’t you??

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:39 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:48 pm

Not long ago you said a lot of the same shit about Jokic...

I think Luka can win in the NBA, but not by only implementing the helio-centric style.

I think it would take a very perfect storm for Luka to win a title. His offense is too methodical, too centered on him and him alone, he doesn't really do much off the ball, his team would have to built from top to bottom to suit his style.

I don't think it would take a perfect storm. If I were Dallas, I'd be trying to get a big who can handle and pass the ball for Kyrie (good luck). I don't know what happened with him and Porzingis, but they should've had better results. Seems like it was a personality thing. I think his best will come from a two-man game with a guy who's bigger, not smaller like they have now with Kyrie.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:19 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:39 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:48 pm

Not long ago you said a lot of the same shit about Jokic...

I think Luka can win in the NBA, but not by only implementing the helio-centric style.

I think it would take a very perfect storm for Luka to win a title. His offense is too methodical, too centered on him and him alone, he doesn't really do much off the ball, his team would have to built from top to bottom to suit his style.

I don't think it would take a perfect storm. If I were Dallas, I'd be trying to get a big who can handle and pass the ball for Kyrie (good luck). I don't know what happened with him and Porzingis, but they should've had better results. Seems like it was a personality thing. I think his best will come from a two-man game with a guy who's bigger, not smaller like they have now with Kyrie.

Here’s to hoping he never figures it out.

Go Nets!

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:24 pm

Wow, the Clippers can’t even beat a depleted Nuggets team at home. They are horrible with their four “superstars”.

I am so thoroughly enjoying their failures so far this season. It's like the NBA gods took almost every player I dislike in the NBA and put them all together on one team so I can concentrate my powerful hatred upon them. If they had also somehow signed Pat Bev in the offseason, it would be 100% complete.

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:39 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:48 pm

Not long ago you said a lot of the same shit about Jokic...

I think Luka can win in the NBA, but not by only implementing the helio-centric style.

I think it would take a very perfect storm for Luka to win a title. His offense is too methodical, too centered on him and him alone, he doesn't really do much off the ball, his team would have to built from top to bottom to suit his style.

FF didn’t read the Twitter thread, he’s speaking from the heart not the brain

And if you read the thread, his team is solid without him.

His stats are empty and take away from the team.

He’s not a good player if your goal is to win.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:20 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:39 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:48 pm

Not long ago you said a lot of the same shit about Jokic...

I think Luka can win in the NBA, but not by only implementing the helio-centric style.

I think it would take a very perfect storm for Luka to win a title. His offense is too methodical, too centered on him and him alone, he doesn't really do much off the ball, his team would have to built from top to bottom to suit his style.

FF didn’t read the Twitter thread, he’s speaking from the heart not the brain

And if you read the thread, his team is solid without him.

His stats are empty and take away from the team.

He’s not a good player if your goal is to win.

I do not disagree. He has so much Harden in his game, he just pounds the air outta the ball for a step back or tries to draw a foul, it's tough to win in the playoffs that way.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:19 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:39 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:48 pm

Not long ago you said a lot of the same shit about Jokic...

I think Luka can win in the NBA, but not by only implementing the helio-centric style.

I think it would take a very perfect storm for Luka to win a title. His offense is too methodical, too centered on him and him alone, he doesn't really do much off the ball, his team would have to built from top to bottom to suit his style.

I don't think it would take a perfect storm. If I were Dallas, I'd be trying to get a big who can handle and pass the ball for Kyrie (good luck). I don't know what happened with him and Porzingis, but they should've had better results. Seems like it was a personality thing. I think his best will come from a two-man game with a guy who's bigger, not smaller like they have now with Kyrie.

Ya they’ve been trying to pair him with a rim runner, which I get, but I think giving him a skilled big would be ideal. Try to follow the Fox/Sabonis model. He’s not going to be available, but Bam Adebayo would seem to be the best of both worlds. He can rim run and run some offense out of the high post. Not a shooter, but he’s a phenomenal defender. KAT could actually be a good teammate and someone who could eventually be available as well…though things are working in Minny right now.

That’s not his problem. His problem is not his teammates.

The problem is he is terrible. His team is WORSE with him on the court. They have a POSITIVE net rating with him off the court, and they have essentially every year.

He takes FTAs away from his teammates who shoot better.

He takes rebounds away from his bigs, he does not help his team rebound.

He is the definition of empty stats and making his team WORSE, not better.

They need to focus on getting a better LUKA to surround the rest of the team with. Not the other way around.

I don’t think we are disagreeing that much with you. I think we all think Luka will have to play differently in order to win. That’s why I think he needs a skilled big who can run some offense. Keep the other players involved in the game and make Luka do some off ball work. I think Luka makes unskilled role players better, but he’s definitely a hindrance to other skilled players(KP and Brunson have both been much better away from him).

The negative on/off stuff is misleading a bit. His team isn’t worse with him on the court, they just aren’t as good as a lot of other star players teams are. The thread says his team has a positive net rating with him off the court…that’s not the same as being better with him off the court. Their net rating is even more positive with him on the court. He’s only had a negative on/off his rookie season(well and this year so far but it’s early). He was +5, 0, and +3 the last 3 seasons. He’s +11.8 for his career in the playoffs. This isn’t saying he’s bad at basketball, it’s just saying his stats are a bit misleading.

I think there is something to the rumors that people hate playing with Luka. Heard too many stories of his former teammates and current teammates() hating him over the years to discount it lol.

That’s probably not helping them team building wise haha.

I think Luka will eventually win a championship tho…when he forces his way to team up with Jokic, his only friend in the league haha.

I just grossed myself out. Ugh

Oh boy is that clippers loss is bad, like yikes!!!

I get that it’s early in the season and they change their offense because of Harden without a training camp but they are a fully healthy team! They are at home! They have Kawhi and Paul George, who a segment of clipper fans think is better than Book by the way lol. PG scoring only 6 points??? Getting cooked by Reggie Jackson and DeAndre Jordan??? I still think they turn it around at some point because they have too much talent but that has to be a pretty demoralizing loss.

They are going to dig themselves into too big of a hole…I mean they’ll still probably make the play-in, but like usual they will have to face a top tier team in round 1 and will ultimately lose.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:43 am

That’s not his problem. His problem is not his teammates.

The problem is he is terrible. His team is WORSE with him on the court. They have a POSITIVE net rating with him off the court, and they have essentially every year.

He takes FTAs away from his teammates who shoot better.

He takes rebounds away from his bigs, he does not help his team rebound.

He is the definition of empty stats and making his team WORSE, not better.

They need to focus on getting a better LUKA to surround the rest of the team with. Not the other way around.

In general it's a bad sign if you have to build the whole rest of the team around one star player to complement him and minimize his flaws. Every team does that to some degree, but I'm talking about situations where basically the ENTIRE rest of the roster has to be explicitly and carefully planned around whether or not it will mesh with this one star. Examples: Allen Iverson; Dwight Howard; Harden; Luka.

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2023 11:06 am

They are going to dig themselves into too big of a hole…I mean they’ll still probably make the play-in, but like usual they will have to face a top tier team in round 1 and will ultimately lose.

Very possible they might dig themselves into a fat hole with their record but I do think there won’t be that much difference between a 4th or 5th seed and a 10th seed record wise. Maybe 4-5 games less. If they keep above .500 then go on a win streak, they could close the gap real quick. We’ll see tho

It’s hard to read this clippers team tho. I see their talent, I see their coach, I think they definitely will figure out their shit and start looking like clear contender by the end of the season but…

Something seems off about them, it wouldn’t be that surprising if they end being just mediocre for the whole year and lose in the 1 round or play-in. I don’t that that will be the case but I could see it happening. That’s just my uninformed outsiders opinion tho.

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:13 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2023 11:06 am

They are going to dig themselves into too big of a hole…I mean they’ll still probably make the play-in, but like usual they will have to face a top tier team in round 1 and will ultimately lose.

Very possible they might dig themselves into a fat hole with their record but I do think there won’t be that much difference between a 4th or 5th seed and a 10th seed record wise. Maybe 4-5 games less. If they keep above .500 then go on a win streak, they could close the gap real quick. We’ll see tho

It’s possible, but right now the 4th seed is on pace for 53 wins and the 10th seed is on pace for 39 wins. Clippers on pace for 36 wins..that’s a huge gap. 6 seed is on pace for 49 wins.

Clippers are 3.5 out of 4th and we’re not even a quarter of the way into the season yet. Still a lot of time, but if they don’t correct soon, that gap is going to continue to widen.

Who says no: Paul George for Bojan, Jaden Ivey, James Wiseman and picks?

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:39 pm

Who says no: Paul George for Bojan, Jaden Ivey, James Wiseman and picks?

The Clippers.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:43 am

That’s not his problem. His problem is not his teammates.

The problem is he is terrible. His team is WORSE with him on the court. They have a POSITIVE net rating with him off the court, and they have essentially every year.

He takes FTAs away from his teammates who shoot better.

He takes rebounds away from his bigs, he does not help his team rebound.

He is the definition of empty stats and making his team WORSE, not better.

They need to focus on getting a better LUKA to surround the rest of the team with. Not the other way around.

But other than that, you're a big fan, right?

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:39 pm

Who says no: Paul George for Bojan, Jaden Ivey, James Wiseman and picks?

Is Detroit that desperate to win? I get they are struggling but most of their guys are in their first 3 years in the league. They need their Ricky Rubio/Kelly Oubre additions…just add some talent around Cade/Ausar/Duren and let it grow organically for a bit