Phx-Suns.Net

That just seemed like a throwaway line to me. He's right, that it wouldn't be the best idea if your goal is to make another big jump, but nothing is entirely off the table. They had three rookies this year, and did a pretty decent job(IMO) of developing them over the year.

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:So. Many. Eyerolls.

They're deserved.

I don't understand deciding in April what your approach to the draft will be. I don't understand punting on picks just because you have a wealth of them. I don't understand operating under an imperative to get rid of draft picks. There's no reason to, especially with the D-League in place now. It's just silly.

It is so freaking asinine.

If you're going to have bantha fodder like Slava Kravtsov, Shavlik Randolph, Leandro Barbosa, and Dionte Christmas take up roster places, why not have rookies with potential that actually have value take their place?

I agree with you, I think McD was just throwing stuff out there to get through the presser. He may have a plan in mind, but without knowing who or what is available, he can't realistically say he'll not use the picks.

INFORMER wrote:If you're going to have bantha fodder like Slava Kravtsov, Shavlik Randolph, Leandro Barbosa, and Dionte Christmas take up roster places, why not have rookies with potential that actually have value take their place?

This is my stance as well.

If its to move up and grab one of the "big 8" I'm all for it.

I'll be at the draft again this yr....Can't wait!

INFORMER wrote:

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:So. Many. Eyerolls.

They're deserved.

I don't understand deciding in April what your approach to the draft will be. I don't understand punting on picks just because you have a wealth of them. I don't understand operating under an imperative to get rid of draft picks. There's no reason to, especially with the D-League in place now. It's just silly.

It is so freaking asinine.

If you're going to have bantha fodder like Slava Kravtsov, Shavlik Randolph, Leandro Barbosa, and Dionte Christmas take up roster places, why not have rookies with potential that actually have value take their place?

Relax. He didn't say that he wanted to get rid of the picks. He mentioned selecting one or two international prospects, trading for future picks, trading up and trading for a vet. Basically every scenario possible, but he didn't sound like dumping the assets has even crossed his mind.

I don't agree with operating under the imperative of "we can't have x rookies on the team next year." All those scenarios you listed are fine if they're done to bring in the best talent. But I don't like those scenarios as ways of avoiding something that doesn't need to be avoided.

As usual, INF is right on. They should keep as many talented rookies on the roster as they reasonably can.

Mori Chu wrote:As usual, INF is right on. They should keep as many talented rookies on the roster as they reasonably can.

While I agree that we shouldn't be trading away draft picks for nothing (ie the early Sarver era...), you can only spend so much time and resources on your young players, especially if they're not even playing in games. Even if you bring back our exact lineup as it was, how do you find time to play 3 rookies AND Len and Goodwin (who will still only be 20 next year!)? That's basically 5 guys on our roster around 20 years old. It's just not smart.

Don't forget we may have up to three more picks next year as well.

I do trust McDonough in this regard. I'd be fine just keeping 1 of the picks and trading the other two for a solid youngster (under 26) needing a change of scenery. I would not be happy however, if we flipped those picks into an older role player who will only give us two good years.

If INF had his way, next year's roster would be Dragic, Tucker, Green, Len, Goodwin, and 10 rookies (2 on inactive list that would rotate in).

Big Jake Little Jake wrote:you can only spend so much time and resources on your young players, especially if they're not even playing in games.

That's what assistant coaches are for. That's what player personnel (Mark West). I think the "time and resources" argument doesn't have much substance. No one can quantify exactly how multiple rookies will irreparably drain these unspecified resources.

And let's not forget: the D-League. The Rockets are a model franchise of using it to the full, essentially allowing both Marcus Morris and Terrence Jones to spend the majority of their rookie seasons there.

how do you find time to play 3 rookies AND Len and Goodwin (who will still only be 20 next year!)? That's basically 5 guys on our roster around 20 years old. It's just not smart.

Well first, who says the rookies have to play? The suns seemed perfectly content to let Len and Goodwin ride the pine. Now all of a sudden there is a demand to play rookies right away?

Furthermore, I don't think it is beyond reasonable to think you can get two top 20 picks in this draft that are better than a 2nd year Archie Goodwin.

And who says Len stays healthy?

Don't forget we may have up to three more picks next year as well.

I'm not forgetting. But those picks are unknowns. And so is that draft. The 2014 draft is not unknown. And its loaded with excellent prospects. And we're looking to minimize our shots at those prospects because of this mythical notion that you can only have x number of rookies at one time.

That's basically 5 guys on our roster around 20 years old. It's just not smart.

It's just not smart if you're relying on those players to be difference-makers, which the Suns are not. So I'm still at a lost what 5 young guys at the end of the bench are going to do to ruin the team.

Superbone wrote:If INF had his way, next year's roster would be Dragic, Tucker, Green, Len, Goodwin, and 10 rookies (2 on inactive list that would rotate in).

I'm not sure Len makes it.

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:

Superbone wrote:If INF had his way, next year's roster would be Dragic, Tucker, Green, Len, Goodwin, and 10 rookies (2 on inactive list that would rotate in).

I'm not sure Len makes it.

Good point. Maybe not even Goodwin. After all, they'd no longer be rookies.

INFORMER wrote:Well first, who says the rookies have to play? .

i'd love to see all 5 of the suns rookie/sophomore players playing together on the same d-league team.

INFORMER wrote:That's what assistant coaches are for. That's what player personnel (Mark West). I think the "time and resources" argument doesn't have much substance. No one can quantify exactly how multiple rookies will irreparably drain these unspecified resources.

And let's not forget: the D-League. The Rockets are a model franchise of using it to the full, essentially allowing both Marcus Morris and Terrence Jones to spend the majority of their rookie seasons there.

Well first, who says the rookies have to play? The suns seemed perfectly content to let Len and Goodwin ride the pine. Now all of a sudden there is a demand to play rookies right away?

Okay, so your strategy would be to stash the guys away and hope one of them explodes in the D-league or blows everyone away in practice. Nothing wrong with that.

Though you bring up the Rockets, who traded a ton of their young guys for Harden...which is exactly what the Suns are trying to accomplish.

The young guys have to play eventually. I guess the concern is finding time for all these young guys even in the future. Especially if you add two or three more the year after that. These are human being who want to play. They're going to get discouraged if they keep getting sent down to the D-league or only play after blowouts. So now you could potentially have five of those guys in the locker room moping around. Is it a good excuse? No of course not, they should be pros and suck it up, but we can't expect all of them to be so level headed.

I'm not forgetting. But those picks are unknowns. And so is that draft. The 2014 draft is not unknown. And its loaded with excellent prospects. And we're looking to minimize our shots at those prospects because of this mythical notion that you can only have x number of rookies at one time.

So would you be upset if they traded two of next years picks instead?

It's just not smart if you're relying on those players to be difference-makers, which the Suns are not. So I'm still at a lost what 5 young guys at the end of the bench are going to do to ruin the team.

I see your overall point, and don't disagree with it but I think ultimately if the Suns move even two of the picks to get a good younger guy who's ready to play now, I don't think it sets us back.

The Suns want to get better. We have a ton of cap space, but really there's no huge difference maker FA out there. Only way to use that space is to trade for one. The Suns see these picks as currency to trade for a "superstar." They've been saying that since day 1. If they have someone in mind that isn't Kevin Love, I'd be curious to know who.

I'm fairly skeptical that it will happen, but it is part of their plan. They did manage get Bledsoe for just Dudley and a 2nd rounder...

Just curious, are you against the general idea of packing some of the future picks or 2nd year guys for a "superstar," like the Rockets?

I believe in diminishing marginal results.

But I don't think anyone can be against packaging the picks/rookies the way the Rockets did.

I think everyone is on the same boat when it comes to selling off picks like they did with the pick that landed Nate Robinson and I believe the pk that landed Rudy Fernedez in Portland. We don't like it. Now if they used a pick in a deal to get a better pick its a different story.

In this draft particularly if they used picks to move up and grab one of the 3 Bigs Gordon,Randle,Vonleh I would not be upset at all. But I have high opinions on all 3, particularly Gordon. Others might like the mid-round value better.

Big Jake Little Jake wrote: Just curious, are you against the general idea of packing some of the future picks or 2nd year guys for a "superstar," like the Rockets?

Absolutely not. But those deals don't grow on trees. I'm against combining the picks to trade up if it doesn't get us in the top 7. I'm against trading the picks away for future picks. I'm against trading the picks for mid-level veterans. I'm against selling the picks. I'm against using the pick on a foreign prospect just so we don't have to worry about having x number of rookies.

INFORMER wrote:

Big Jake Little Jake wrote: Just curious, are you against the general idea of packing some of the future picks or 2nd year guys for a "superstar," like the Rockets?

Absolutely not. But those deals don't grow on trees. I'm against combining the picks to trade up if it doesn't get us in the top 7. I'm against trading the picks away for future picks. I'm against trading the picks for mid-level veterans. I'm against selling the picks. I'm against using the pick on a foreign prospect just so we don't have to worry about having x number of rookies.

the problem with too many young players is that they will not get the playing time they need to develop (if the suns decide to build on the success of the current squad). if the suns are trying to make the playoffs next season, there's no room for young impatient players who dont know their place. i'd rather have usable vets who i can rely on for 10-12 mins like jermaine o neal (lets get him next season) over alex len.

Mori Chu wrote:As usual, INF is right on. They should keep as many talented rookies on the roster as they reasonably can.

The key is 'reasonably'.

We have Archie and Len, who next season will basically still be rookies. Three more picks this year. Two or three in 2015. If you keep everything, that's 8 rookie scale guys. Do you honestly believe that's reasonable?

I don't want to sell picks, using them to dump contracts or trading them for mediocre, overpaid vets. But that's worlds away from using them to select an international prospect if it's not a reach, or trading for future picks.

I want the most efficient resources management, period, and in order to do so you have to take in mind the state of the roster and its goals. I don't want to end up not exercising team options or trading kids for second round picks because they are buried in the bench.

But I am not concerned by what I consider a non issue at this point. We'll see what happens in the draft and over the summer, but nothing I did hear from McD, Babby or Hornacek made me raise the alarms.