Phx-Suns.Net

JustWinBaby wrote:I hope Booker enjoys coming off the bench this year.

I really don't think he'll have a problem with it, if that's how it works out.

As long as he gets minutes, I don't care whether he's doing it as a starter or sixth man.

Cap wrote:

JustWinBaby wrote:I hope Booker enjoys coming off the bench this year.

I really don't think he'll have a problem with it, if that's how it works out.

As long as he gets minutes, I don't care whether he's doing it as a starter or sixth man.

I'm glad to see there's still some common sense on this board.

I don't think it's a bad thing for Booker to have to compete for minutes at this point in his career. Last year was great in that injuries allowed him to shine, and I'm sure he has the requisite maturity to not let that success go to his head, but I'm not sure we need to hand the reigns to him just because he managed some good (but inefficient) scoring games that did not lead to overall team success. I would like to see Booker improve his game to the point where Watson can't hold him back anymore, rather than for him to be started just due to potential.

I too feel that Len doesn't have the talent to be a dominant post up player. He is too tall, and his legs too long, for him to have a low center of gravity. I'm not sure if he's necessarily top heavy, but it just doesn't feel like when he is backing peo0ple down in the post he's moving the needle at all. So instead he bounces around those bigger and bulkier defenders and end up having to find other seams in which to get up a shot, and the defender, who is usually not displaced by his backing down, is then in prime position to block his shot. And if that's what we have in a center, either work really really hard on an 8 foot hook shot going over either shoulder, or turn into a knock dead mid range shooter the way Amare did, in order to open up some more driving space.

I do feel like some of Len's problem is mental. Getting a lot of fouls called on you on defense invariably makes you tentative, and that whole mental state affects your confidence on the court. The frequent foot injuries probably contribute to that tentativeness as well. Statistically I'd love to see more blocks, but even more so I just want him to have improved ability to defend at the rim without fouling. Maybe the team can do a bit of lobbying on his behalf, to give him a bit of that "tough defender" reputation so less shit is called on him.

I would think several teams would have interest in Knight. The two New York teams, for sure; Orlando could use more shooting from the outside; Minnesota can actually use more spacing as well; Kings can always use more of everything; who knows, maybe even Dallas? Or Clippers, with Knight taking over Crawford's role off the bench? From a fan level, a lot of people who don't closely follow the Suns don't view Knight as negatively as we do. They see him as a guy who's capable of putting up 20 pts on a nightly basis who is on a reasonable contract following this summer's free agency bonanza. So maybe we'll be able to move him for something at the end of said bonanza. But I'd hate for the Kieff situation to repeat itself... so yeah, maybe we can trade him after the end of the free agency period but before training camp.

Like what Cap said, I guess I don't care as much who starts/finishes games, more about who gets how many minutes. If they find 25-30 minutes for Booker every night, I'm content.

My opinion on Booker's development is that we should remove superfluous obstacles. You don't award him what he doesn't deserve but he has showed he can be special. You don't dump everybody and put the ball in his hands all the time, but there is a wide gap between that and having him come off the bench. It's not that said role is bad per se, but Knight is just not needed anymore precisely because we have Boooker so his place is on a better team that can limit his low IQ mistakes and plausibly make him a 6th man. We are not that, and he is rightfully not going to take it without fighting. It's just that I feel said fight is absolutely unneeded and I don't think it benefits either Knight or Booker.

Warren and PJ, on the other hand, it has all my support as ideally it shows the scorer that you need to also work hard on D+R.

With Len, I think Chandler is also useful as long as he buys into the mentor role. Len is so green. Also gives me room to keep playing Len as a stretch big even if the results so far are a mixed bag.

How is coming off the bench an obstacle to his development?

Come on guys, really? Can we not put our heads in the sand and pretend like Booker shouldn't be starting and getting touches and bring groomed as a main option?

ShelC wrote:Come on guys, really? Can we not put our heads in the sand and pretend like Booker shouldn't be starting and getting touches and bring groomed as a main option?

He still needs to learn to play defense.

Which he'll learn off the bench, playing behind All-NBA Defender Brandon Knight.

ShelC wrote:Which he'll learn off the bench, playing behind All-NBA Defender Brandon Knight.

Thank you.

JCSunsfan wrote:

ShelC wrote:Come on guys, really? Can we not put our heads in the sand and pretend like Booker shouldn't be starting and getting touches and bring groomed as a main option?

He still needs to learn to play defense.

Who on the team doesn't? It's a small list.

Indy wrote:

JCSunsfan wrote:

ShelC wrote:Come on guys, really? Can we not put our heads in the sand and pretend like Booker shouldn't be starting and getting touches and bring groomed as a main option?

He still needs to learn to play defense.

Who on the team doesn't? It's a small list.

No kidding.

I really would like to see some defensive Stats that back up the hype most Suns Fans use as an excuse for the playing time given to our "Stopper" PJ Tucker as well as Bledsoe and Knight.

I know there are sites out there that provide good defensive stats. If anyone can provide a link it would be great.

If Tucker is who everyone thinks he is I will respectfully STFU. I might even contribute to the construction of his statue in front of "Talking Stick Arena".

JustWinBaby wrote:

Indy wrote:

JCSunsfan wrote:

ShelC wrote:Come on guys, really? Can we not put our heads in the sand and pretend like Booker shouldn't be starting and getting touches and bring groomed as a main option?

He still needs to learn to play defense.

Who on the team doesn't? It's a small list.

No kidding.

I really would like to see some defensive Stats that back up the hype most Suns Fans use as an excuse for the playing time given to our "Stopper" PJ Tucker as well as Bledsoe and Knight.

I know there are sites out there that provide good defensive stats. If anyone can provide a link it would be great.

If Tucker is who everyone thinks he is I will respectfully STFU. I might even contribute to the construction of his statue in front of "Talking Stick Arena".

I haven't heard anyone (including Knight!) say BK is anything but a bad defender. Bleds is very good at anticipating passes and getting into the lanes, and even catching his man from behind and disrupting his shot. But neither can keep a guy in front of them, and don't seem to communicate well on D.

I would say PJ tries hard more often than anyone on the team, and that's why he gets PT. and although I would bet he is our best defender in our main rotation, he isn't what he was 2 years ago.

I want Booker to start, but I understand that you have to make things work with the group of players you have. If they think they have to start Knight for now, I get it. Just find minutes for Booker is all I'm saying.

Long-term Booker should absolutely be our starting 2-guard. And I'd prefer to ship out Knight unless he's willing to become a bench microwave guy. I actually think he could be pretty useful in that role, but who knows if he'll ever be okay with that.

JustWinBaby wrote:

Indy wrote:

JCSunsfan wrote:

ShelC wrote:Come on guys, really? Can we not put our heads in the sand and pretend like Booker shouldn't be starting and getting touches and bring groomed as a main option?

He still needs to learn to play defense.

Who on the team doesn't? It's a small list.

No kidding.

I really would like to see some defensive Stats that back up the hype most Suns Fans use as an excuse for the playing time given to our "Stopper" PJ Tucker as well as Bledsoe and Knight.

I know there are sites out there that provide good defensive stats. If anyone can provide a link it would be great.

If Tucker is who everyone thinks he is I will respectfully STFU. I might even contribute to the construction of his statue in front of "Talking Stick Arena".

The DRtg on Basketball Reference is a pretty good measure. The Drtgs on this year's Suns:

106: Leuer
107: Len, Chandler, Bledsoe
108: Price, Morris
109: Tucker
110: Teletovic, Warren
111: Knight, Goodwin
112: Booker, Weems, Jenkins

Cap wrote:How is coming off the bench an obstacle to his development?

It's not, per se. Like I said. The obstacle is Brandon Knight, a player whose current ability might be more consolidated but with little potential to become a great asset to a losing team on the court, despite his age.

It's one thing to say "Booker will obviously outperform Knight in a competition and should be the starter, based on what we know now", and quite another to say "it's ridiculous to suggest that we might not start Booker next year." I don't find it all that outrageous to bring Booker off the bench, if indeed, during training camp and pre-season, Knight outplays him. Of course the likelihood of that is not high, but I honestly don't find it ridiculous at all to tell young Booker that he needs to earn that starting role in 2016-2017.

Why is the competition between Knight and Booker? Knight's really a PG so why not make it between him and Bledsoe? How would either of those guys react then?

And what happens if/when Booker wins the starting job in training camp or Watson makes a switch 15 games into the season? How does Knight react? Why play that game? Get rid of Knight and save yourself the aggravation. He can't/shouldn't be part of the long term plan.

I'm not advocating that we keep Knight at all. I thought about stating my preferences for the record, but I felt like I've said this elsewhere and didn't want to sound like a broken record. Ideally I want us to move Knight after the free agency frenzy, when teams have slowed down and looked at the contracts they have handed out and realize that a 20 ppg guy for 14 mm a year isn't horrible and Knight was AASE and young!

I'm just saying, as far as Booker's development goes, purely in a vacuum, asking him to compete for a starting spot is not a bad thing. He does seem to have a good head on his shoulders so maybe I'm worried for nothing, but I sure as hell would like to see him improve his defense and his pull up accuracy this summer.

He's also 19.