Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:Are you really gonna pass on an All-NBA player based on 3-4 summer league games?
And no, based on his college career and scouting reports I don't include Josh Jackson, who is on a rookie scale contract and under team control for five years for Kyrie Irving who is going to ask for $35-$40 million a year when he starts talking new contract in the next year or two.
good point. it's the big picture that counts. not a comparison of the 2 players
the "timeline"
would we only have kyrie for 2 years that we're not competing for a championship, likely not even the playoffs, anyway?
how much will kyrie's salary detract from the suns making other team adjustments in the years ahead?
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:Are you really gonna pass on an All-NBA player based on 3-4 summer league games?
And no, based on his college career and scouting reports I don't include Josh Jackson, who is on a rookie scale contract and under team control for five years for Kyrie Irving who is going to ask for $35-$40 million a year when he starts talking new contract in the next year or two.
good point. it's the big picture that counts. not a comparison of the 2 players
the "timeline"
would we only have kyrie for 2 years that we're not competing for a championship, likely not even the playoffs, anyway?
how much will kyrie's salary detract from the suns making other team adjustments in the years ahead?
I don't think it detracts much as it's only $3 mil more than Bledsoe, and most likely the Suns trade another youmg player, if it happens. I think next offseason, they start really going for it, with an eye on making the playoffs.
"There are 3 rules I live by: never get less than 12 hours sleep, never play cards with a guy with the same first name as a city & never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Everything else is cream cheese."
1tinsoldier wrote:
how much will kyrie's salary detract from the suns making other team adjustments in the years ahead?
I don't think it detracts much as it's only $3 mil more than Bledsoe, and most likely the Suns trade another youmg player, if it happens. I think next offseason, they start really going for it, with an eye on making the playoffs.
The Cavs are absolutely going to try and make us take some bad salary back with Kyrie though. Either Shumpert, Frye or both.
1tinsoldier wrote:
how much will kyrie's salary detract from the suns making other team adjustments in the years ahead?
I don't think it detracts much as it's only $3 mil more than Bledsoe, and most likely the Suns trade another youmg player, if it happens. I think next offseason, they start really going for it, with an eye on making the playoffs.
The Cavs are absolutely going to try and make us take some bad salary back with Kyrie though. Either Shumpert, Frye or both.
If it's a choice between taking back a bad contract or parting with draft picks and young assets, I'd rather take the bad contract. We can afford it. Frye only has one year and Shumpert two.
“Are you crazy?! You think I’m going to go for seven years and try to get there? You enjoy the 2030 draft picks that we have holding? I want to try to see the game today.” — Ish 3/13/25
1tinsoldier wrote:
how much will kyrie's salary detract from the suns making other team adjustments in the years ahead?
I don't think it detracts much as it's only $3 mil more than Bledsoe, and most likely the Suns trade another youmg player, if it happens. I think next offseason, they start really going for it, with an eye on making the playoffs.
The Cavs are absolutely going to try and make us take some bad salary back with Kyrie though. Either Shumpert, Frye or both.
If it's a choice between taking back a bad contract or parting with draft picks and young assets, I'd rather take the bad contract. We can afford it. Frye only has one year and Shumpert two.
I think I am getting less excited about acquiring Kyrie by the day. Im just not sure if he is a big enough upgrade over Bledsoe to justify emptying our coffers (unless theyd be willing to take only Bled and Chriss, because I am currently not a Chriss fan).
Cap wrote:
If it's a choice between taking back a bad contract or parting with draft picks and young assets, I'd rather take the bad contract. We can afford it. Frye only has one year and Shumpert two.
Nooo. It's going to be both those things if it happens.
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:You guys must have seen something in those 3-4 summer league games that I didn't see.
What did you see?
I saw a solid rookie prospect who seems to be a good defender, who handles the ball pretty well for an SF, and runs/plays hard. I liked what I saw, but I also wasn't so blown away as to think, "This player is untouchable, even if we could acquire an All-NBA level player in return."
That's fair. My biggest reason for not trading Jackson is I don't think anyone is coming close to an offer of bled/Jackson/Miami 1st. What teams can beat that offer? Boston, maybe Minny, depending on how they value Wiggins. I honestly think Jackson is a better prospect than Wiggins, but i realize most people hold him in higher esteem than me.
1tinsoldier wrote:
how much will kyrie's salary detract from the suns making other team adjustments in the years ahead?
I don't think it detracts much as it's only $3 mil more than Bledsoe, and most likely the Suns trade another youmg player, if it happens. I think next offseason, they start really going for it, with an eye on making the playoffs.
The Cavs are absolutely going to try and make us take some bad salary back with Kyrie though. Either Shumpert, Frye or both.
If it's a choice between taking back a bad contract or parting with draft picks and young assets, I'd rather take the bad contract. We can afford it. Frye only has one year and Shumpert two.
I think I am getting less excited about acquiring Kyrie by the day. Im just not sure if he is a big enough upgrade over Bledsoe to justify emptying our coffers (unless theyd be willing to take only Bled and Chriss, because I am currently not a Chriss fan).
Bledsoe is like a B+ as a driver, C+ as a shooter, B- as a passer and a B- on defense. If he morphs back into 2014 bled, he's a A- on defense. Kyrie is an A+ as a driver, A as a shooter, B- as a passer and maybe a D+ on defense. I think his elite scoring/shooting makes him a pretty big upgrade over bled.
Cap wrote:
If it's a choice between taking back a bad contract or parting with draft picks and young assets, I'd rather take the bad contract. We can afford it. Frye only has one year and Shumpert two.
Nooo. It's going to be both those things if it happens.
Well then forget it.
“Are you crazy?! You think I’m going to go for seven years and try to get there? You enjoy the 2030 draft picks that we have holding? I want to try to see the game today.” — Ish 3/13/25
Cap wrote:
If it's a choice between taking back a bad contract or parting with draft picks and young assets, I'd rather take the bad contract. We can afford it. Frye only has one year and Shumpert two.
Nooo. It's going to be both those things if it happens.
Well then forget it.
The Cavs are desperate to get rid of Kyrie. No one is willing to give a mother load to the Cavs for, even if it's fair value. The Suns certainly aren't tripping over themselves desperate to make this trade and if they are, I'm embarrassed for them. LeBron really wants Bledsoe who isn't equivelant, but kind of close. I say an offer of Bledsoe, Warren, and the Miami pick is above value, imo. I really think Warren is going to thrive in Cleveland, if included. He is being slept on, big time. And I don't really want to include him.
"There are 3 rules I live by: never get less than 12 hours sleep, never play cards with a guy with the same first name as a city & never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Everything else is cream cheese."
I think Warren is really the asset we should be fighting not to give up. Chriss, fine. Bender, sad to see him go, but fine. First round pick, fine. Even (for me), Jackson, fine. Warren? You keep your darn mitts off my guy.
Though I will admit that a Kyrie-Booker-Warren starting lineup would be horrendous defensively.
I think we need to keep Jackson and Bender at nearly all costs if we get Kyrie. They have the potential to mask/make up for what would be a very poor defensive back court.
Also no unprotected picks going out.
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I think Warren is really the asset we should be fighting not to give up. Chriss, fine. Bender, sad to see him go, but fine. First round pick, fine. Even (for me), Jackson, fine. Warren? You keep your darn mitts off my guy.
Though I will admit that a Kyrie-Booker-Warren starting lineup would be horrendous defensively.
I like Warren but I don't think he has a high ceiling. Chriss has a higher ceiling, but I doubt he's ever going to get there based on what we've seen of his basketball IQ.
And Chriss is worse defensively than Warren. A Chriss-Irving-Booker defensive trio is a little sobering.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
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Gladiator wrote:I think we need to keep Jackson and Bender at nearly all costs if we get Kyrie. They have the potential to mask/make up for what would be a very poor defensive back court.
Also no unprotected picks going out.
This. If we are going to bring in a star, we need to consider what players fit around him.
And for those saying a pick or two isn't much to give up, remember that 2018 is supposed to be a VERY good draft. You aren't going to have Len / Bender / Chriss talent in the lottery of this draft.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan
I think there is a strong likelyhood that wherever Kyrie goes, he leaves for NY in 2 years. He "badly" wants to get there according to people. It reminds me of Marbury wanting to get there. I'm offering Bled/Chriss/Heat 1st as my final offer. I am perfectly fine not doing anything and even more fine being the facilitator.
“Kobe had said (after the play) I wasn’t hugged enough as a child,” Bell recalled. “My mom kind of found him after the instance and we had beat them and offered him a hug in the bowels of the Phoenix arena. She really feels a part of that story.”
“Kobe had said (after the play) I wasn’t hugged enough as a child,” Bell recalled. “My mom kind of found him after the instance and we had beat them and offered him a hug in the bowels of the Phoenix arena. She really feels a part of that story.”
huh. I thought the new CBA was intended to incentivize players to stay with their current team.
Six months after being traded, Irving could sign a three-year extension worth $73,361,218 ($24,453,739 annually). If he waits until July, he could sign a four-year extension worth $101,437,733 ($25,359,433 annually).
By contrast, if Irving plays out his contract then opts out in 2019, his max salary projects to be about $188 million over five years ($38 million annually) if he re-signs or $139 million over four years ($35 million annually) if he signs elsewhere.
So, there’s large incentive for Irving to forgo an extension.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan
Sunsfan4life wrote:I think there is a strong likelyhood that wherever Kyrie goes, he leaves for NY in 2 years. He "badly" wants to get there according to people. It reminds me of Marbury wanting to get there. I'm offering Bled/Chriss/Heat 1st as my final offer. I am perfectly fine not doing anything and even more fine being the facilitator.
If Cleveland had 0 leverage, they now have negative leverage. Who wants to give up assets for Kyrie if he's wanting to go to NY? Win now teams maybe, but Win now teams aren't going to give Cleveland what they want in return.
