Phx-Suns.Net

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 3:03 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 2:03 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 11:49 am

I think it comes down to some of us have given up on him reaching his potential and others haven’t. He has massive potential and that kinda explains the big divide.

Indy wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 12:03 pm

Yeah I guess I just haven't seen enough of him using his gifts to dominate. He has them at his disposal, and he just doesn't use them to dominate.

Yes, and yes.

I have no evidence of this because I'm obviously not in their training facility, but I think it just come down to Jones/Monty not believing Ayton has put in the right amount of work to justify the contract he wants. It's not about Ayton's touches during the game as much as it is how much Monty and his teammates trust giving him the ball. If they're not seeing the work during the offseason or in practice, then why take the risk during the game?

The risk of what? Proven high efficiency scoring ability? The fact that they have a way better record the more field goal attempts he gets?

The risk of him turning over the ball by not catching it or wasting his positional advantage and passing out of a scoring opportunity that forces someone else into a bad shot at the end of the shot clock. Do you not recognize his lack of aggression and poor ability to read his matchup?

rhylek wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 3:29 pm

I don't think DA will ever be Amare 2.0
But Olajuwon 2.0? That's not out of reach.

Funny thing about Hakeem: he was nearly traded during a bitter contract dispute before the 1992–93 season.

Hakeem had an insane work ethic and competitive drive. Ayton has not been trending that way in his basketball career so far.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 3:59 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 3:03 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 2:03 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 11:49 am

I think it comes down to some of us have given up on him reaching his potential and others haven’t. He has massive potential and that kinda explains the big divide.

Indy wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 12:03 pm

Yeah I guess I just haven't seen enough of him using his gifts to dominate. He has them at his disposal, and he just doesn't use them to dominate.

Yes, and yes.

I have no evidence of this because I'm obviously not in their training facility, but I think it just come down to Jones/Monty not believing Ayton has put in the right amount of work to justify the contract he wants. It's not about Ayton's touches during the game as much as it is how much Monty and his teammates trust giving him the ball. If they're not seeing the work during the offseason or in practice, then why take the risk during the game?

The risk of what? Proven high efficiency scoring ability? The fact that they have a way better record the more field goal attempts he gets?

The risk of him turning over the ball by not catching it or wasting his positional advantage and passing out of a scoring opportunity that forces someone else into a bad shot at the end of the shot clock. Do you not recognize his lack of aggression and poor ability to read his matchup?

Again, if Monty made it the game plan to go to him, then his teammates would go to him and he would know that he's supposed to score and not pass it out. If Monty said he was benching him if he didn't take 20 field goal attempts, you really think he wouldn't do it?

And we're back to Ayton's downfall being the fault of the guy who lead the team to the Finals a year ago and just won Coach of the Year.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 4:38 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 3:59 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 3:03 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 2:03 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 11:49 am

I think it comes down to some of us have given up on him reaching his potential and others haven’t. He has massive potential and that kinda explains the big divide.

Indy wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 12:03 pm

Yeah I guess I just haven't seen enough of him using his gifts to dominate. He has them at his disposal, and he just doesn't use them to dominate.

Yes, and yes.

I have no evidence of this because I'm obviously not in their training facility, but I think it just come down to Jones/Monty not believing Ayton has put in the right amount of work to justify the contract he wants. It's not about Ayton's touches during the game as much as it is how much Monty and his teammates trust giving him the ball. If they're not seeing the work during the offseason or in practice, then why take the risk during the game?

The risk of what? Proven high efficiency scoring ability? The fact that they have a way better record the more field goal attempts he gets?

The risk of him turning over the ball by not catching it or wasting his positional advantage and passing out of a scoring opportunity that forces someone else into a bad shot at the end of the shot clock. Do you not recognize his lack of aggression and poor ability to read his matchup?

Again, if Monty made it the game plan to go to him, then his teammates would go to him and he would know that he's supposed to score and not pass it out. If Monty said he was benching him if he didn't take 20 field goal attempts, you really think he wouldn't do it?

He'd mishandle or blow layups on half the passes he'd be forced.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 4:54 pm

And we're back to Ayton's downfall being the fault of the guy who lead the team to the Finals a year ago and just won Coach of the Year.

And led a heavily-favored team to 27 and 33 point losses in their last two playoff games.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 3:05 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 11:49 am

I think it comes down to some of us have given up on him reaching his potential and others haven’t. He has massive potential and that kinda explains the big divide.

If by "reaching his potential" you mean being as aggressive as everyone would like, that may not happen. You can't necessarily teach aggression. But he will certainly continue to grow offensively. He can be a dominant force on offense without tearing down the rim, or even getting to the line a ton.

But just from what he has already shown, I think he deserves a max contract. And since that is obviously going to be his fair market value (at least the RFA max), then that is what the Suns need to give him. Why would they want to lose their homegrown future All-Star?

He is going to be an All-Star. He is an all-star level talent. I expect that in return in any trade or I’m not interested

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:15 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 4:54 pm

And we're back to Ayton's downfall being the fault of the guy who lead the team to the Finals a year ago and just won Coach of the Year.

And led a heavily-favored team to 27 and 33 point losses in their last two playoff games.

Two seasons vs. the last two games, which has more value to you?

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:23 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:15 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 4:54 pm

And we're back to Ayton's downfall being the fault of the guy who lead the team to the Finals a year ago and just won Coach of the Year.

And led a heavily-favored team to 27 and 33 point losses in their last two playoff games.

Two seasons vs. the last two games, which has more value to you?

"The regular season is where you make your name, but the postseason is where you make your fame."

- Walt Frazier

So then I guess every team besides the NBA champion should just fire their head coach. Problem solved!

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 4:54 pm

And we're back to Ayton's downfall being the fault of the guy who lead the team to the Finals a year ago and just won Coach of the Year.

And Ayton is the player who led them to the Finals. Even Indy admitted that he was the MVP of the WCF.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:32 pm

So then I guess every team besides the NBA champion should just fire their head coach. Problem solved!

Who said to fire the coach?

But there certainly has to be some accountability on his part for how the team performed in the playoffs after deciding to coast to the finish line in the regular season.

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:02 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 4:38 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 3:59 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 3:03 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 2:03 pm

Yes, and yes.

I have no evidence of this because I'm obviously not in their training facility, but I think it just come down to Jones/Monty not believing Ayton has put in the right amount of work to justify the contract he wants. It's not about Ayton's touches during the game as much as it is how much Monty and his teammates trust giving him the ball. If they're not seeing the work during the offseason or in practice, then why take the risk during the game?

The risk of what? Proven high efficiency scoring ability? The fact that they have a way better record the more field goal attempts he gets?

The risk of him turning over the ball by not catching it or wasting his positional advantage and passing out of a scoring opportunity that forces someone else into a bad shot at the end of the shot clock. Do you not recognize his lack of aggression and poor ability to read his matchup?

Again, if Monty made it the game plan to go to him, then his teammates would go to him and he would know that he's supposed to score and not pass it out. If Monty said he was benching him if he didn't take 20 field goal attempts, you really think he wouldn't do it?

He'd mishandle or blow layups on half the passes he'd be forced.

Sounds good to me. 50% of passes turning into 2 points? I would take that any day over the garbage we just witnessed from the rest of the team against the Mavs.

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:45 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:32 pm

So then I guess every team besides the NBA champion should just fire their head coach. Problem solved!

Who said to fire the coach?

But there certainly has to be some accountability on his part for how the team performed in the playoffs after deciding to coast to the finish line in the regular season.

Of course there must be accountability. Including from Deandre Ayton.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:52 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:45 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:32 pm

So then I guess every team besides the NBA champion should just fire their head coach. Problem solved!

Who said to fire the coach?

But there certainly has to be some accountability on his part for how the team performed in the playoffs after deciding to coast to the finish line in the regular season.

Of course there must be accountability. Including from Deandre Ayton.

And from Devin Booker, Chris Paul, Jae Crowder and Mikal Bridges. None of them came up big in those last two games when they were needed.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:52 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:45 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:32 pm

So then I guess every team besides the NBA champion should just fire their head coach. Problem solved!

Who said to fire the coach?

But there certainly has to be some accountability on his part for how the team performed in the playoffs after deciding to coast to the finish line in the regular season.

Of course there must be accountability. Including from Deandre Ayton.

Do you suggest that Booker also be held accountable by not being offered a super max extension?

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:55 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:52 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:45 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:32 pm

So then I guess every team besides the NBA champion should just fire their head coach. Problem solved!

Who said to fire the coach?

But there certainly has to be some accountability on his part for how the team performed in the playoffs after deciding to coast to the finish line in the regular season.

Of course there must be accountability. Including from Deandre Ayton.

Do you suggest that Booker also be held accountable by not being offered a super max extension?

Booker came up with clunkers in the elimination games against both Milwaukee and Dallas. Where's the criticism of his play?

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:45 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 4:54 pm

And we're back to Ayton's downfall being the fault of the guy who lead the team to the Finals a year ago and just won Coach of the Year.

And Ayton is the player who led them to the Finals. Even Indy admitted that he was the MVP of the WCF.

Cool, good for Indy.

And do you really think the Suns would've made the Finals without Chris Paul as their leader? Replace him with a good but not great Point Guard, someone who's similar to Ayton's level at the position, say Mike Conley or Malcolm Brogdon.

I'm tired of this shit about "Chris Paul said he was the MVP of this or that". He says that stuff because he's a leader, and guess what, these guys aren't 100% honest every time there's a microphone in front of them. Maybe he also knows that Ayton is mentally softer than some other guys and needs more hand holding. Do we really need to go over Monty giving Ayton a pep talk during The Finals? He was basically begging him to keep playing hard because Ayton's body language looked like he wanted to give up. IN THE NBA FINALS. But OK, he was the one who led them there.

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 6:01 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:55 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:52 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:45 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:32 pm

So then I guess every team besides the NBA champion should just fire their head coach. Problem solved!

Who said to fire the coach?

But there certainly has to be some accountability on his part for how the team performed in the playoffs after deciding to coast to the finish line in the regular season.

Of course there must be accountability. Including from Deandre Ayton.

Do you suggest that Booker also be held accountable by not being offered a super max extension?

Booker came up with clunkers in the elimination games against both Milwaukee and Dallas. Where's the criticism of his play?

I haven't heard about Booker pouting over his contract.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:55 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:52 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:45 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon May 30, 2022 5:32 pm

So then I guess every team besides the NBA champion should just fire their head coach. Problem solved!

Who said to fire the coach?

But there certainly has to be some accountability on his part for how the team performed in the playoffs after deciding to coast to the finish line in the regular season.

Of course there must be accountability. Including from Deandre Ayton.

Do you suggest that Booker also be held accountable by not being offered a super max extension?

1st Team All-NBA. Stop with the false equivalencies.