Earned what? Not holding him to the same standard of playing up to his salary level?
He has earned being valued as a franchise player that we are committed to. It doesn't stop people from calling him out when he plays poorly. There were a number of posts in the Boston thread complaining about his play. You ignored those and zeroed in on negative posts about Ayton and started complaining about people complaining about Ayton.
So no, there isn't a conversation focused on questioning whether Book is a supermax player. We aren't tracking how many non-supermax games he has had versus supermax. THAT is what Booker has earned. He has earned the designation as star in the league that you want on your team. Doesn't absolve him of criticism, but it does mean that the majority of us aren't going to engage in conversation questioning whether Booker should be on the team or if he is the best option to lead this team.
INF doesn't have any "max Book vs non-max Book" because it would be a tally of like 19-3. Book has shown up and excelled and led this team in almost every single game. It is shocking and rare when Book scores a mere 20 points. I have gotten to the point where I just expect him to hit 30+ every single night. That is just crazy; he's one of the best players in the NBA, essentially a lock to make an All-NBA team and the All-Star team. So yeah, we don't need to really keep a tally of every game where he does or doesn't show up. Because he's doing what we need from him.
INF doesn't have any "max Book vs non-max Book" because it would be a tally of like 19-3. Book has shown up and excelled and led this team in almost every single game. It is shocking and rare when Book scores a mere 20 points. I have gotten to the point where I just expect him to hit 30+ every single night. That is just crazy; he's one of the best players in the NBA, essentially a lock to make an All-NBA team and the All-Star team. So yeah, we don't need to really keep a tally of every game where he does or doesn't show up. Because he's doing what we need from him.
Only one problem with that: Book is not a max player. He's a supermax player. He's had 3 games where's played at a supermax level in the last 10, and 7 games where's played at a max or significantly worse than max level.
For the record, I think people may be misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying we should keep a tally of Book's games or focus on his inconsistencies. I'm just saying why not be consistent with the insistence on consistency?
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
His per-36 numbers are essentially the same as always. We’ve seen this for 5 years now. He’ll look like a max player for a few games and then he disappears. I won’t be disappointed if he’s moved
And those per-36 numbers are max center numbers. For example, take a look at Bam. He actually plays 35.1 mpg and averages 21/9.
Bam can dribble and create for others. He’s also a better defensive player. They aren’t the same…if you’re just comparing pts/Reb, McGee averaged 20/15 per-36 last year. He was better than Ayton, we should’ve given him the max
Except that McGee can't actually do it for 36 minutes. Ayton has proven he can. He actually scored 22.2 ppg and got 14.0 rpg when playing 35 or more minutes last season.
You skipped over the Bam stuff. You think it’s fine that Ayton can’t dribble or playmake? Bam is also maybe the best defensive player in the game. Certainly on the short list of players at the top.
No, I just don't feel like arguing with you over whether or not Ayton can dribble or playmake or the defensive strengths and weaknesses of each player.
Also, the original discussion was whether Ayton could average max-level points and rebounds.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
For the record, I think people may be misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying we should keep a tally of Book's games or focus on his inconsistencies. I'm just saying why not be consistent with the insistence on consistency?
Booker is consistent. And he has proven to be consistent for years. If he has a bad stretch of games, which he has had, hardly anyone makes a big deal about it because we know it won't last. Again, he has earned that through his play.
Ayton has not been able to play consistently at a max-level. Period. His claim to fame is a brilliant stretch of games in the 2021 playoffs. For most, we're not willing to let him coast on that. His play is up and down all throughout the season. It was in '20, '21, and so far in '22. It isn't just an occasional bad game here or there. It happens on a regular basis. You want to blame this on his teammates, lack of minutes, or the coach, but most of us aren't willing to rest on those excuses. You want to cherry-pick games, or look at projected numbers, but that isn't necessary with Devin Booker.
For the record, I think people may be misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying we should keep a tally of Book's games or focus on his inconsistencies. I'm just saying why not be consistent with the insistence on consistency?
Booker is consistent. And he has proven to be consistent for years. If he has a bad stretch of games, which he has had, hardly anyone makes a big deal about it because we know it won't last. Again, he has earned that through his play.
Ayton has not been able to play consistently at a max-level. Period. His claim to fame is a brilliant stretch of games in the 2021 playoffs. For most, we're not willing to let him coast on that. His play is up and down all throughout the season. It was in '20, '21, and so far in '22. It isn't just an occasional bad game here or there. It happens on a regular basis. You want to blame this on his teammates, lack of minutes, or the coach, but most of us aren't willing to rest on those excuses. You want to cherry-pick games, or look at projected numbers, but that isn't necessary with Devin Booker.
So what is your criteria for determining if Ayton played at a max-level in a specific game?
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
So what is your criteria for determining if Ayton played at a max-level in a specific game?
I want to see him be a force in multiple ways. He should be dominating he boards, creating havoc on the defensive end for the opposition, and he should be a scorer on the other end. As a non-ball handler, his turnovers should be low. He should be finishing around the basket, and he should be aggressive. We should see a blend of him getting baskets off of his teammates penetration, as well as scoring on his opportunities in the post and from mid-range. And I want to see the motor high and him dialed in mentally.
Just look at his back to back performances against Utah and Detroit. And he didn't even have to play 36 minutes in either one.
Or even the earlier Utah game. He didn't score 20 points, or have one of his 80% shooting games, but he did manage to collect 8 assists and 3 blocks, while still getting 17 points and double-figure rebounds. So there are various ways he can impact the game at a max-level. It doesn't have to be scoring in the high 20s.
INF doesn't have any "max Book vs non-max Book" because it would be a tally of like 19-3. Book has shown up and excelled and led this team in almost every single game. It is shocking and rare when Book scores a mere 20 points. I have gotten to the point where I just expect him to hit 30+ every single night. That is just crazy; he's one of the best players in the NBA, essentially a lock to make an All-NBA team and the All-Star team. So yeah, we don't need to really keep a tally of every game where he does or doesn't show up. Because he's doing what we need from him.
Only one problem with that: Book is not a max player. He's a supermax player. He's had 3 games where's played at a supermax level in the last 10, and 7 games where's played at a max or significantly worse than max level.
For the record, I think people may be misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying we should keep a tally of Book's games or focus on his inconsistencies. I'm just saying why not be consistent with the insistence on consistency?
His super max doesn’t kick in for 2 more years, so no he’s actually not a supermax player yet
And those per-36 numbers are max center numbers. For example, take a look at Bam. He actually plays 35.1 mpg and averages 21/9.
Bam can dribble and create for others. He’s also a better defensive player. They aren’t the same…if you’re just comparing pts/Reb, McGee averaged 20/15 per-36 last year. He was better than Ayton, we should’ve given him the max
Except that McGee can't actually do it for 36 minutes. Ayton has proven he can. He actually scored 22.2 ppg and got 14.0 rpg when playing 35 or more minutes last season.
You skipped over the Bam stuff. You think it’s fine that Ayton can’t dribble or playmake? Bam is also maybe the best defensive player in the game. Certainly on the short list of players at the top.
No, I just don't feel like arguing with you over whether or not Ayton can dribble or playmake or the defensive strengths and weaknesses of each player.
Also, the original discussion was whether Ayton could average max-level points and rebounds.
Because you refuse to talk about anything negative about Ayton?
INF doesn't have any "max Book vs non-max Book" because it would be a tally of like 19-3. Book has shown up and excelled and led this team in almost every single game. It is shocking and rare when Book scores a mere 20 points. I have gotten to the point where I just expect him to hit 30+ every single night. That is just crazy; he's one of the best players in the NBA, essentially a lock to make an All-NBA team and the All-Star team. So yeah, we don't need to really keep a tally of every game where he does or doesn't show up. Because he's doing what we need from him.
Only one problem with that: Book is not a max player. He's a supermax player. He's had 3 games where's played at a supermax level in the last 10, and 7 games where's played at a max or significantly worse than max level.
For the record, I think people may be misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying we should keep a tally of Book's games or focus on his inconsistencies. I'm just saying why not be consistent with the insistence on consistency?
His super max doesn’t kick in for 2 more years, so no he’s actually not a supermax player yet
I would agree with that if he hadn't signed the extension yet.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
Bam can dribble and create for others. He’s also a better defensive player. They aren’t the same…if you’re just comparing pts/Reb, McGee averaged 20/15 per-36 last year. He was better than Ayton, we should’ve given him the max
Except that McGee can't actually do it for 36 minutes. Ayton has proven he can. He actually scored 22.2 ppg and got 14.0 rpg when playing 35 or more minutes last season.
You skipped over the Bam stuff. You think it’s fine that Ayton can’t dribble or playmake? Bam is also maybe the best defensive player in the game. Certainly on the short list of players at the top.
No, I just don't feel like arguing with you over whether or not Ayton can dribble or playmake or the defensive strengths and weaknesses of each player.
Also, the original discussion was whether Ayton could average max-level points and rebounds.
Because you refuse to talk about anything negative about Ayton?
No, because you refuse to see what he can actually do in those areas of the game.
By the way, only one of the two players has 8 assists this season, and it's not Bam.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
I refuse to see? I did miss the 8 assist game admittedly, but the guy averages 1.7 a game for his career. This is the first year he’s been over 2 and it’s solely because of that 8 assist game. Take it out and he’s right back under 2. Bam has been at 3.5-5 per game the last 4 years, but you’ll completely ignore any fact or statistic that doesn’t serve your narrative. Just once I’d like to see you say something remotely negative about Ayton or blame Ayton for his shortcomings instead of passing the blame elsewhere.
You’ll notice everyone, even the biggest Booker supporters called him out tonight for his poor performance. Just once can you call Ayton out when he plays poorly or decides not to show up for a game? That would be something.
I refuse to see? I did miss the 8 assist game admittedly, but the guy averages 1.7 a game for his career. This is the first year he’s been over 2 and it’s solely because of that 8 assist game. Take it out and he’s right back under 2. Bam has been at 3.5-5 per game the last 4 years, but you’ll completely ignore any fact or statistic that doesn’t serve your narrative. Just once I’d like to see you say something remotely negative about Ayton or blame Ayton for his shortcomings instead of passing the blame elsewhere.
You’ll notice everyone, even the biggest Booker supporters called him out tonight for his poor performance. Just once can you call Ayton out when he plays poorly or decides not to show up for a game? That would be something.
I have several times this season. You just chose to ignore it I guess. But I also usually don't feel the need when everyone else is doing it. Same tonight for Booker--I see no reason for me to pile on, so I didn't say anything about his performance tonight.
Bam is averaging 3.4 assists per 36, Ayton 2.7--not a game-changing difference.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
I refuse to see? I did miss the 8 assist game admittedly, but the guy averages 1.7 a game for his career. This is the first year he’s been over 2 and it’s solely because of that 8 assist game. Take it out and he’s right back under 2. Bam has been at 3.5-5 per game the last 4 years, but you’ll completely ignore any fact or statistic that doesn’t serve your narrative. Just once I’d like to see you say something remotely negative about Ayton or blame Ayton for his shortcomings instead of passing the blame elsewhere.
You’ll notice everyone, even the biggest Booker supporters called him out tonight for his poor performance. Just once can you call Ayton out when he plays poorly or decides not to show up for a game? That would be something.
I have several times this season. You just chose to ignore it I guess. But I also usually don't feel the need when everyone else is doing it. Same tonight for Booker--I see no reason for me to pile on, so I didn't say anything about his performance tonight.
Bam is averaging 3.4 assists per 36, Ayton 2.7--not a game-changing difference.
