Ayton's energy is high but he's making poor decisions.
The national guys are really starting to call him out now.
For me, the only question is whether he is learning anything. And so far, the results don't look promising. Here's hoping that something suddenly clicks.
Re: Game Day: Mavericks (25-24) @ Suns (25-24), Thurs 1/26/23
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:42 am
by Flagrant Fowl
I think it was SVG on the broadcast who made comments about how the best players have high situational awareness. My biggest gripe with Ayton is that he makes way too many mental errors.
Re: Game Day: Mavericks (25-24) @ Suns (25-24), Thurs 1/26/23
Take a closer look at the play. It was physically impossible for him to dunk the ball, given where he caught it, and especially with Powell pushing him in the chest:
You all have such predictable knee-jerk criticisms that are simply irrational when scrutinized in the light of reality. Even Monty was livid at the refs not Ayton:
Re: Game Day: Mavericks (25-24) @ Suns (25-24), Thurs 1/26/23
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:50 am
by Superbone
Is the Mavs defense really that good to make us look that pathetic? Is Kidd twice the coach that Monty is? I don’t get this Dallas dynamic. Especially when we had the Mavs number until last years playoff and now they own our soul.
Re: Game Day: Mavericks (25-24) @ Suns (25-24), Thurs 1/26/23
Take a closer look at the play. It was physically impossible for him to dunk the ball, given where he caught it, and especially with Powell pushing him in the chest:
Give me a break. It never entered his mind to try to dunk the ball. His plan all along was to jump straight up, catch the ball, and shoot it into the rim. It’s all plain as day in slow mo. Powell would never even had a chance to do ANYTHING. Probably even more of a chance of Ayton getting an and one. It really is starting to amaze me what you see when watching Ayton. It’s almost like you have some kind of brain inhibitor that explains everything he does in a positive manner.
Re: Game Day: Mavericks (25-24) @ Suns (25-24), Thurs 1/26/23
Take a closer look at the play. It was physically impossible for him to dunk the ball, given where he caught it, and especially with Powell pushing him in the chest:
Give me a break. It never entered his mind to try to dunk the ball. His plan all along was to jump straight up, catch the ball, and shoot it into the rim. It’s all plain as day in slow mo. Powell would never even had a chance to do ANYTHING. Probably even more of a chance of Ayton getting an and one. It really is starting to amaze me what you see when watching Ayton. It’s almost like you have some kind of brain inhibitor that explains everything he does in a positive manner.
If you want to say he should have been closer to the rim when calling for the ball, fine. But it was not possible for him to dunk from where he caught the ball. He would have had to bring the ball back down in traffic and try to go back up with it. You really think Monty would have been yelling at the refs if DA blew a dunk opportunity? Lol. It’s almost like you have some kind of brain inhibitor that explains everything he does in a negative manner.
Re: Game Day: Mavericks (25-24) @ Suns (25-24), Thurs 1/26/23
Take a closer look at the play. It was physically impossible for him to dunk the ball, given where he caught it, and especially with Powell pushing him in the chest:
Give me a break. It never entered his mind to try to dunk the ball. His plan all along was to jump straight up, catch the ball, and shoot it into the rim. It’s all plain as day in slow mo. Powell would never even had a chance to do ANYTHING. Probably even more of a chance of Ayton getting an and one. It really is starting to amaze me what you see when watching Ayton. It’s almost like you have some kind of brain inhibitor that explains everything he does in a positive manner.
If you want to say he should have been closer to the rim when calling for the ball, fine. But it was not possible for him to dunk from where he caught the ball. He would have had to bring the ball back down in traffic and try to go back up with it. You really think Monty would have been yelling at the refs if DA blew a dunk opportunity? Lol. It’s almost like you have some kind of brain inhibitor that explains everything he does in a negative manner.
No, I’m not saying he should have been closer to the rim when calling for the ball. I’m saying go up toward the hoop with the intention of slamming it through. Many big guys would have dunked that exact same pass. It’s all about intention. Was the pass perfect? No, it was a little behind him. You can even hear Van Gundy start to say that in the clip. But it was still close enough for him to grab it and dunk it. I’ve seen it many times over the years. I’m done with this now. Ayton doesn’t have it in him to be aggressive.
Re: Game Day: Mavericks (25-24) @ Suns (25-24), Thurs 1/26/23
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:56 am
by Mori Chu
I don't blame Ayton for this loss. He didn't play his best game. He rebounded well but shot poorly and generally seemed out of sorts, often being out hustled or outmatched by various mediocre Dallas bigs. But the guy has been ill and he tried to give it a go. I'm glad he played even in a less than 100% state rather than just sit it out.
Dallas really seems to be our kryptonite. They have an infinite number of rangy athletic wings and can switch everything. We can't contain their 3-point shooting, we can't stop them from driving to the rim, and we don't use our own size to an advantage.
It feels like destiny that we will play Dallas in the 4-5 playoff matchup this year, and lose.
Re: Game Day: Mavericks (25-24) @ Suns (25-24), Thurs 1/26/23
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:02 am
by Flagrant Fowl
For the “this is on Monty” crowd.
I think his only error was the end of first quarter lineup that was a disaster. Missed open shots and defensive lapses hurt the Suns more while the Mavs hit several tough shots.
End of the day, it’s one game in January. Don’t overreact.
Re: Game Day: Mavericks (25-24) @ Suns (25-24), Thurs 1/26/23
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:11 am
by Flagrant Fowl
Buckle up.
Re: Game Day: Mavericks (25-24) @ Suns (25-24), Thurs 1/26/23
I think his only error was the end of first quarter lineup that was a disaster. Missed open shots and defensive lapses hurt the Suns more while the Mavs hit several tough shots.
End of the day, it’s one game in January. Don’t overreact.
Well when your max center is a pussy, quotes like this fall on deaf ears. Maybe don’t feature a big man with hormone deficiencies then
Re: Game Day: Mavericks (25-24) @ Suns (25-24), Thurs 1/26/23
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:37 am
by Carno
Ok, I get the criticism for Ayton. His defense this year has been terrible. But c'mon, this isn't the game to pile on him. He clearly was not recovered from his illness.
Frankly, the "others" deserve more criticism, imo. Craig, Wainright, Lee, Lee, DWJ, Okogie, and Bizzy were all BAD...like really BAD. Mikal was a ghost most of the game. Only Cam and CP3 showed up.
Re: Game Day: Mavericks (25-24) @ Suns (25-24), Thurs 1/26/23
Ok, I get the criticism for Ayton. His defense this year has been terrible. But c'mon, this isn't the game to pile on him. He clearly was not recovered from his illness.
Frankly, the "others" deserve more criticism, imo. Craig, Wainright, Lee, Lee, DWJ, Okogie, and Bizzy were all BAD...like really BAD. Mikal was a ghost most of the game. Only Cam and CP3 showed up.
He continues to not give two shits about D. He had no interest in rotating, contesting shots, etc.
On offense, he’s completely content not backing down someone half his size and instead shooting immediately upon getting the ball to avoid any contact that would hurt his feelings
Re: Game Day: Mavericks (25-24) @ Suns (25-24), Thurs 1/26/23
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:04 am
by Mori Chu
Plenty of guys sucked for us tonight. Basically our entire bench gave us nothing; our highest bench scorer was Biyombo with 4 points, and the whole bench gave us 11 (!). Okogie was especially bad, shooting 0-6 including 0-4 from 3. He had several open looks that just weren't close. Wainwright was also 1-6. Torrey Craig gave us almost nothing with just 5 points in 28 minutes. Other than Craig, our starters carried us, with CP3 giving us 22 and 10, Cam Johnson with 22 and 8, Bridges with 16 points, and Ayton with 19.
Ayton clearly looked not-100% out there. You could just see that his lift, his reaction time, his overall energy weren't all there. I think it's obvious that he's still recovering from the illness he had. He said so himself, that it was hard for him to breathe for days.
I'm not saying Ayton played a great game. I watched the game and it was clear that he wasn't right. He blew several plays defensively, he got outhustled for rebounds several times, he blew several easy shots, he settled for fadeaways and jumpers at times where he could have gone up stronger, he missed a lot of shots, and so on. I'm not saying he had a good game; the stats he put up are misleading. I'm just saying, I didn't watch this game and come away with the take that Ayton is why we lost. We should have beaten them with Luka out, and it's pretty pathetic that we couldn't. But there are plenty of guys to blame.
The obvious response is, these other guys aren't making the max, so I have lower expectations for them. Fine. But what about some leeway for a guy who's going out there and playing despite recovering from illness? And can still put up 19 and 20 in a flawed effort? I just don't think this game is the Exhibit A for "Ayton sucks" that some of you guys think it is.
Re: Game Day: Mavericks (25-24) @ Suns (25-24), Thurs 1/26/23
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:47 am
by Split T
It’s definitely not all on Ayton, there’s just a couple plays that stand out that Ayton messed up. The failed layup that he should have dunked(I saw the criticism that Powell pushed him, but Ayton was already slightly fading back when he jumped. There was zero intention to dunk the ball and it was a very dunkable play) and the rebound he missed.
The defensive lapses that he’s had all year are my bigger concern. He just doesn’t seem to have interest in playing defense this year. It’s almost like he started the year being extra physical and getting fouls called constantly and he’s now shifted to avoiding playing much defense at all. He’s just a bad defensive player right now and that’s not something we can afford(or any team can afford out of their starting C).
We could complain about Craig too, he’s also not been good, but he’s a 9th-10th man being forced to start due to injuries. He’s the type of guy you expect nothing out of and are pleasantly surprised when he produces. That goes for almost all the bench. They sucked tonight, but if we’re counting on the bench to win us games, we’re in trouble. CP3 and Cam were great all game, Mikal had a great 2nd half and Ayton had a mixed bag game. I do like the 20 rebounds and I’m not that concerned he missed so many shots, I think you can explain that away with coming back from being sick.
Isn’t it something to pay attention to that only Craig has a worse net rating on the suns than Ayton? We’re especially bad when those two share the court together. Why do we win all our games when Ayton sits?
We have a -13 net rating when Ayton and Craig share the court this year. And surprisingly that’s not the worst, Ayton and Paul have a -14 net rating. Biyombo and Paul have a +16 net rating.
We’ve just been bad this year when Ayton is on the court. That’s objectively true.
Re: Game Day: Mavericks (25-24) @ Suns (25-24), Thurs 1/26/23
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:28 am
by djy2j
Again for all the Ayton apologists, I understand other guys had bad games but Ayton is now a max player. He's not Ish Wainwright on a 2 way deal or Lee on a vet minimum. He's a max player. This isn't just one bad game. It's continuous mental mistakes, lack of effort, coupled with advanced metrics that say he's not doing well. He's five years into this doing rookie shit time after time. He's elite level talent with a toddler playing with building blocks behind the wheel and the team is suffering because of it.
Re: Game Day: Mavericks (25-24) @ Suns (25-24), Thurs 1/26/23
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:30 am
by JeremyG
1. Can Monty ever take any responsibility for a loss? Like ever? Just once? Never seen a head coach just continually throw his players under the bus like that ("the bench didn't know the game plan," etc. etc.) and take no blame himself.
2. If Ayton had gotten the ball that much in the Mavs series and had played in the exact same way that he did last night, I guarantee we would have gone to the Western Conference Finals. If he had played exactly the same last night, but hit the great shots he was taking (which was most of them), the only story line would have been how dominant and aggressive he was, drawing contact and getting to the line and even showing dribble drive moves. Also, it's crazy how nobody noticed his defensive effort in crunch time. And again, the man was still sick.
4. This is it for me. I'm taking a break from the forum for a while. Talking about the Suns has become more stressful than fun lately, and I'm dealing with some post-Covid health issues so I don't need any extra sources of stress right now. I made things more personal than I like to last night as well. My apologies. Perhaps I'll be back after the trade deadline, when hopefully things will have settled down a bit in the Suns world.
Enjoy the unmitigated Hayton Fest while I'm gone. (Jk I know it won't quite be 100% negative )
(Jk I know it won't quite be 100% negative 
)