Page 11 of 16
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 2:56 pm
by JeremyG
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Apr 09, 2025 12:46 pm
I’ve said before that I get wanting to move off Booker…I would even seriously consider it because I doubt we can make the necessary moves to build a true contender again in the short term, but all this talk that you’d need 2 superstars better than him is just factually not true. The opposite has already been proven.
You’re forgetting something important: 2026 is not the same as 2021 or 2022.
I don’t believe Booker is as good of a player as he was back then and I don’t think he has the same drive to be, or to get better. I also don’t think he is the same physically, and we could see a Beal-type situation evolve, which is a huge risk if you’re keeping him long-term and even signing him to an extension, to be your #1 franchise player. He turns 30 next year.
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 3:11 pm
by Split T
JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Apr 09, 2025 2:56 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Apr 09, 2025 12:46 pm
I’ve said before that I get wanting to move off Booker…I would even seriously consider it because I doubt we can make the necessary moves to build a true contender again in the short term, but all this talk that you’d need 2 superstars better than him is just factually not true. The opposite has already been proven.
You’re forgetting something important: 2026 is not the same as 2021 or 2022.
I don’t believe Booker is as good of a player as he was back then and I don’t think he has the same drive to be, or to get better. I also don’t think he is the same physically, and we could see a Beal-type situation evolve, which is a huge risk if you’re keeping him long-term and even signing him to an extension, to be your #1 franchise player. He turns 30 next year.
It’s also not 2026…it’s 2025. He is 28 right now, he won’t be 30 until after the 2026-27 season starts. We have over a year before he’s even extension eligible. I just don’t think evaluating anyone based on this season is fair. It’s been an absolute mess and was a terribly put together team.
It also makes very little sense to blow the team up this summer without our 2026 pick. I think building a better fitting lineup around Booker next year and seeing how that goes makes a lot of sense. Reevaluate in the summer of 2026 when he becomes extension eligible. He’ll still be 29 and would return quite a bit in a trade.
Now if someone blows us away with an offer this summer(looking at you Houston), then I’d be willing to pull the trigger, but I don’t expect it.
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 10:14 pm
by 1tinsoldier
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Apr 09, 2025 12:46 pm
What are we even doing here? Nurkic? He was awful this year.
...
Also 3 years in a row our defense ranked 9th, 3rd, and 7th…all with Booker on it, so that tells me you can build a good defense around Booker if you have the right guys.
Nurkic did have an awful spell. But he started the season strong and it really fell apart with him after Draymond humiliated him and after he became the scapegoat. Regardless, as of a couple of days ago, Nurkic had the best defensive rating and, the guys who replaced him were worse.
regarding those good defensive years, Booker was surrounded by 4 better than average defenders, Crowder, Ayton, CP3, and Bridges. Add to that one of the best leaders and clutch playmakers in history, and some luck with opponent injury's, and Booker's weaknesses were masked enough to get them to the Finals. It won't happen again. Booker's not even as good as he was.
The Suns went from best clutch team for 2 years to one of the worst as soon as CP3 left.
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 10:19 pm
by 1tinsoldier
Wally_West wrote: ↑Wed Apr 09, 2025 12:32 pm
1tinsolder is just secretly JeremyG’s burner to finally unleash his darkest inner Book feelings cuz he last guy on the team to hurt Ayton’s baby feelings. Jeremy won’t root for this team until everyone who betrayed Ayton is gone.
sure, in a fanboy's mind, it would be virtually impossible for two people on one PHX forum to see the flaws in Booker's game
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 10:24 pm
by 1tinsoldier
tonight told the story of this season:
8th straight blowout loss when we likely only needed to win 2 of those games to make the playoffs.
Booker's breaking records in the +/- column, but god bless Arizona Sports TV for pitching Booker's sneakers in the 4th quarter
-- at home, in an arena with far too many empty seats
after the highest paid NBA team in history was about to fail in the 4th Booker led debacle in 3 seasons.
the more clutch the moment, the less clutch Booker too often is. Case in point:
in this elimination game, Booker is, as he often is,
still trying to figure out whether he needs to be a scorer or a passer
(he's not bright enough to figure out that his problem, i.e. the Suns problem, is DEFENSE, not offense)
But still, he often approaches a game with a mindset to prove he's a good scorer OR a good passer,
instead of having the instinct and focus to always do both.
He really has no idea what to do to win.
regardless, the announcers are with him all the way,
smoothing out his performances by focusing on what part he's doing right
(like they're peaking through towels on their head like Leander was in the pre-game)
In the most iconic moment, Booker misses 2 free throws. Seconds later, with Booker still likely sulking,
KayRay says, "Caruso dribbles right past Booker, no weak-side help."
(i guess even for a guy like Caruso, every side of Booker is a "weak side) Caruso dunks the ball for a 23 point lead.
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 10:27 pm
by Superbone
1tinsoldier wrote: ↑Wed Apr 09, 2025 10:24 pm
tonight told the story of this season:
8th straight blowout loss when we likely only needed to win 2 of those games to make the playoffs.
Booker's breaking records in the +/- column, but god bless Arizona Sports TV for pitching Booker's sneakers in the 4th quarter
-- at home, in an arena with far too many empty seats
after the highest paid NBA team in history was about to fail in the 4th Booker led debacle in 3 seasons.
the more clutch the moment, the less clutch Booker too often is. Case in point:
in this elimination game, Booker is, as he often is,
still trying to figure out whether he needs to be a scorer or a passer
(he's not bright enough to figure out that his problem, i.e. the Suns problem, is DEFENSE, not offense)
But still, he often approaches a game with a mindset to prove he's a good scorer OR a good passer,
instead of having the instinct and focus to always do both.
He really has no idea what to do to win.
regardless, the announcers are with him all the way,
smoothing out his performances by focusing on what part he's doing right
(like they're peaking through towels on their head like Leander was in the pre-game)
In the most iconic moment, Booker misses 2 free throws. Seconds later, with Booker still likely sulking,
KayRay says, "Caruso dribbles right past Booker, no weak-side help."
(i guess even for a guy like Caruso, every side of Booker is a "weak side) Caruso dunks the ball for a 23 point lead.
You're going to have to up your campaign to somehow get through to the announcers.
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 10:45 pm
by JeremyG
JeremyG wrote: ↑Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:53 pm
-32 for Booker in the most important game of the season. 0-5 from three. He’s trying to break his record for worst season 3P% I guess.
-12 for Booker in the most important game of the season. 0-4 from three. He’s trying to break his record for worst season 3P% I guess.
Oh, and 2-4 FT.
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2025 6:55 am
by Mori Chu
Book had 20, 14, and 6. Not a phenomenal game but a pretty good one with a variety of different statistical contributions, playing on a team with mostly rooks/youngs and cast-offs on it. Sure I wish his defense were better, but I don't think that was the most important game of the season, nor that it was Booker's fault we lost it.
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:24 am
by The Bobster
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 6:55 am
Book had 20, 14, and 6. Not a phenomenal game but a pretty good one with a variety of different statistical contributions, playing on a team with mostly rooks/youngs and cast-offs on it. Sure I wish his defense were better, but I don't think that was the most important game of the season, nor that it was Booker's fault we lost it.
He didn't have a good game despite the assits though - it took him 20 shots to score those 20 points, and he was a big part of the third quarter turnover machine.
This team's failure is bigger than one player though. If Booker's slip in play this season was the only thing to worry about it wouldn't have been a big deal. It's that everything else went wrong at the same time too.
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:35 am
by iLLmatic
Booker hasn’t looked the same since that run to the finals.
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:01 am
by Mori Chu
The Bobster wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:24 am
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 6:55 am
Book had 20, 14, and 6. Not a phenomenal game but a pretty good one with a variety of different statistical contributions, playing on a team with mostly rooks/youngs and cast-offs on it. Sure I wish his defense were better, but I don't think that was the most important game of the season, nor that it was Booker's fault we lost it.
He didn't have a good game despite the assits though - it took him 20 shots to score those 20 points, and he was a big part of the third quarter turnover machine.
This team's failure is bigger than one player though. If Booker's slip in play this season was the only thing to worry about it wouldn't have been a big deal. It's that everything else went wrong at the same time too.
I agree with you. But using Book as "Point Book" as well as "finisher Book" at the same time will lead to some turnovers and some bad/missed shots.
We agree that the team's problems go way beyond any one player. I have repeatedly said that we need to trade KD. But that isn't because I think KD is playing badly; arguably he has been our team's best and most consistent player this year. It's because he is old, has high trade value, won't have high value in the future, and is redundant with Book and Beal as "finishers" on our roster.
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:55 am
by Split T
iLLmatic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:35 am
Booker hasn’t looked the same since that run to the finals.
I’m curious why people think this…after the finals run he made all-nba 1st team and finished 4th in the mvp race, made another all-nba 3rd team, and also had one of the best 11 game runs in the playoffs statistically. He’s also won two gold medals after that finals run.
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2025 10:00 am
by Superbone
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:55 am
iLLmatic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:35 am
Booker hasn’t looked the same since that run to the finals.
I’m curious why people think this…after the finals run he made all-nba 1st team and finished 4th in the mvp race, made another all-nba 3rd team, and also had one of the best 11 game runs in the playoffs statistically. He’s also won two gold medals after that finals run.
Split, you can't let facts get in the way. That's not how the world works anymore.
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2025 10:15 am
by Mori Chu
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:55 am
iLLmatic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:35 am
Booker hasn’t looked the same since that run to the finals.
I’m curious why people think this…after the finals run he made all-nba 1st team and finished 4th in the mvp race, made another all-nba 3rd team, and also had one of the best 11 game runs in the playoffs statistically. He’s also won two gold medals after that finals run.
He has had a small but noticeable drop-off this season. The stats don't indicate a huge regression, but rather a mild one. He's down 1.4 ppg, down 3% on his 3pt% (36 to 33%), down about 4% on overall FG%, down 0.4 reb (4.5 to 4.1), up 0.2 in ast (6.9 to 7.1), up 0.3 in turnovers (2.6 to 2.9).
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... ede01.html
None of that is especially noteworthy. But the eye test tells a different story. He seems more passive this year, his shooting seems a bit off, and his overall rhythm and flow on offense have seemed worse, especially when sharing the floor with KD and Beal. I think he's been kind of feasting on these games where he's playing solo lately to boost his stats back up, and if you just looked at the games when the whole Big 3 played, I bet the regression would be more stark.
I say all of that as a Booker defender and a guy who doesn't want to trade him. But he has definitely not had his best year. He deservedly wasn't an All-Star this season and is not even close to sniffing an All-NBA team.
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2025 10:22 am
by Split T
Ya he’s been worse this year, that’s pretty clear…that’s not my issue. There’s 3 other years that happened after the finals. A few people keep saying he’s been on a downward trend since the finals…that’s just simply not true. Statistically, his best seasons of his career happened after the finals trip.
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2025 10:37 am
by Superbone
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 10:15 am
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:55 am
iLLmatic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:35 am
Booker hasn’t looked the same since that run to the finals.
I’m curious why people think this…after the finals run he made all-nba 1st team and finished 4th in the mvp race, made another all-nba 3rd team, and also had one of the best 11 game runs in the playoffs statistically. He’s also won two gold medals after that finals run.
He has had a small but noticeable drop-off this season. The stats don't indicate a huge regression, but rather a mild one. He's down 1.4 ppg, down 3% on his 3pt% (36 to 33%), down about 4% on overall FG%, down 0.4 reb (4.5 to 4.1), up 0.2 in ast (6.9 to 7.1), up 0.3 in turnovers (2.6 to 2.9).
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... ede01.html
None of that is especially noteworthy. But the eye test tells a different story. He seems more passive this year, his shooting seems a bit off, and his overall rhythm and flow on offense have seemed worse, especially when sharing the floor with KD and Beal. I think he's been kind of feasting on these games where he's playing solo lately to boost his stats back up, and if you just looked at the games when the whole Big 3 played, I bet the regression would be more stark.
I say all of that as a Booker defender and a guy who doesn't want to trade him. But he has definitely not had his best year. He deservedly wasn't an All-Star this season and is not even close to sniffing an All-NBA team.
I think this does show that he's better when he doesn't have a KD and Beal around as he tries to defer too much.
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2025 12:17 pm
by Wally_West
1tinsoldier wrote: ↑Wed Apr 09, 2025 10:19 pm
Wally_West wrote: ↑Wed Apr 09, 2025 12:32 pm
1tinsolder is just secretly JeremyG’s burner to finally unleash his darkest inner Book feelings cuz he last guy on the team to hurt Ayton’s baby feelings. Jeremy won’t root for this team until everyone who betrayed Ayton is gone.
sure, in a fanboy's mind, it would be virtually impossible for two people on one PHX forum to see the flaws in Booker's game
Nothing strange about being people being Booker haters, but 2 Booker haters while also being Ayton apologists? Hmmmm
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2025 12:21 pm
by TOO
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:55 am
iLLmatic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:35 am
Booker hasn’t looked the same since that run to the finals.
I’m curious why people think this…after the finals run he made all-nba 1st team and finished 4th in the mvp race, made another all-nba 3rd team, and also had one of the best 11 game runs in the playoffs statistically. He’s also won two gold medals after that finals run.
But can he drive in the snow?
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2025 12:27 pm
by 1tinsoldier
3 words the Book fans keep ignoring
CLUTCH SHOOTING, 3PT SHOOTING AND
DEFENSE
correction. I see the Bookers do mention the word defense (things like "i do wish he had better defense but...") but never considering it in the same league with offense
a couple of days, my friends
in a couple of days when the season mercifully comes to it's abysmal end we'll take a clear look at the full statistical picture
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2025 12:33 pm
by 1tinsoldier
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:55 am
iLLmatic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:35 am
Booker hasn’t looked the same since that run to the finals.
I’m curious why people think this…after the finals run he made all-nba 1st team and finished 4th in the mvp race, made another all-nba 3rd team, and also had one of the best 11 game runs in the playoffs statistically. He’s also won two gold medals after that finals run.
check Russell Westbrook's individual achievements too while your at it
(far more than Booker, btw)
and his team's success
i should say, his many, many team's success (5 in 5 years)
-- team's that had the good sense to move his poor-decision-making ass
