Phx-Suns.Net

I think we won't see these kinds of roster moves unless we really start to stink it up, because those moves would probably come with the loss of guys we just signed this offseason, like Bledsoe or the Morrii. And McD probably wouldn't want to admit defeat so quickly on guys he has just signed.

Mori Chu wrote:I think we won't see these kinds of roster moves unless we really start to stink it up, because those moves would probably come with the loss of guys we just signed this offseason, like Bledsoe or the Morrii. And McD probably wouldn't want to admit defeat so quickly on guys he has just signed.

Fair enough. But if you have value in what you have, and need something else, you make the deal. It isn't admitting defeat. It is using the resources you locked up already to get something you need more. But I do think it is too soon. I think we need to let some things play out a bit more.

Agree, Mori.

The sort of moves short-term I'd like to see is to send Ennis, Archie and TJ to the D League to play.
For TJ, it would be more a matter to get a bit of the rust off and then bring him back up to play with the second unit. I'd rather have him play than Tolliver and Shavlik ... TJ has the potential for instant offense and rebounding from the bench. Tolliver and Shavlik, frankly, are placeholders and don't have much future with Phoenix.

As for Goodwin, he's still very young, and isn't going to get better gathering splinters at the end of the bench in Phoenix. He may have to swallow his pride a bit, but he needs to play somewhere. It's not as critical for Ennis, but he still needs to get regular PT against competition.

Mori Chu wrote:I think we won't see these kinds of roster moves unless we really start to stink it up, because those moves would probably come with the loss of guys we just signed this offseason, like Bledsoe or the Morrii. And McD probably wouldn't want to admit defeat so quickly on guys he has just signed.

Well, the Suns have many more movable pieces besides Bledsoe and the twins. An allstar big man would be great, but I believe we can avoid some loses over the season just with a decent to good C/PF and more balance to the roster. By the middle of last year this was obvious too, but the Suns chose to stand pat only to fall short by one game, and I don't want for it to happen again.

By the middle of last year this was obvious too, but the Suns chose to stand pat only to fall short by one game, and I don't want for it to happen again.

But did they? Would have making up that 1 game really have changed anything for us last year, besides getting a couple more home games to pay the bills? We weren't going to get out of the 1st round, so really it wouldn't have done much. In fact, it might have made us less aggressive to improve the team in the off-season (although that is up for debate, INF).

TJ > a 1st round match-up with the Spurs in last year's playoffs + Hood

IMO

I think it's at least a month too early to be talking trades. The Suns have struggled to begin the season, but a lot of good teams do, especially when they've had a major subtraction (Frye) and a major addition (Isaiah) causing some havoc with rotations.

Indy wrote:

By the middle of last year this was obvious too, but the Suns chose to stand pat only to fall short by one game, and I don't want for it to happen again.

But did they? Would have making up that 1 game really have changed anything for us last year, besides getting a couple more home games to pay the bills? We weren't going to get out of the 1st round, so really it wouldn't have done much. In fact, it might have made us less aggressive to improve the team in the off-season (although that is up for debate, INF).

If having Okafor's contract and many picks but not making a move is not standing pat I don't know what it is. There were many players on the trading block at the deadline and before. Not just Gasol.

As for what making the playoffs would have meant, I believe it puts the franchise on a different status. Maybe they name Hornacek and McD COY and EOY. Maybe different makers actually consider you in free agency. Dallas took SAS to 7 games. Maybe a decent performace means that the arena is not half empty this season, that the fans are fired up. Maybe some playoff games show that given players are not as good as we thought and it saves the franchise from questionable contracts.

As for TJ Warren, he is a great prospect to have (I wanted him too), but who knows how the draft plays out with a #18 instead. Does any of Dallas, Denver-Chicago take him? If that's the case, do we really make Ennis our first pick? Do we select him at all? Impossible to tell. Maybe the overall results of the 2014 draft would have been better for the franchise, maybe we even walk away with him anyway.

All I know is that I don't want to end up again with a 12-14 pick. I am ok with trying to win now, as I believe that in order to get great players today you have to either draft them (hard to do so at that range) or show what you can do for them, not the other way around.

Under that principle I am no opposed to use some of the assets the team has gathered over the past two-three years. Obviously I am not suggesting trading the LAL pick for half a season of Greg Monroe, or some similar case of reduction to the absurd, but I am not adamant it has to be an allstar caliber player or nothing.

SDC wrote:maybe the suns should have tried to acquire pau gasol?

Interesting. Maybe you should have suggested it last season when we had the chance.

Ring_Wanted wrote:

Indy wrote:

By the middle of last year this was obvious too, but the Suns chose to stand pat only to fall short by one game, and I don't want for it to happen again.

But did they? Would have making up that 1 game really have changed anything for us last year, besides getting a couple more home games to pay the bills? We weren't going to get out of the 1st round, so really it wouldn't have done much. In fact, it might have made us less aggressive to improve the team in the off-season (although that is up for debate, INF).

If having Okafor's contract and many picks but not making a move is not standing pat I don't know what it is. There were many players on the trading block at the deadline and before. Not just Gasol.

As for what making the playoffs would have meant, I believe it puts the franchise on a different status. Maybe they name Hornacek and McD COY and EOY. Maybe different makers actually consider you in free agency. Dallas took SAS to 7 games. Maybe a decent performace means that the arena is not half empty this season, that the fans are fired up. Maybe some playoff games show that given players are not as good as we thought and it saves the franchise from questionable contracts.

As for TJ Warren, he is a great prospect to have (I wanted him too), but who knows how the draft plays out with a #18 instead. Does any of Dallas, Denver-Chicago take him? If that's the case, do we really make Ennis our first pick? Do we select him at all? Impossible to tell. Maybe the overall results of the 2014 draft would have been better for the franchise, maybe we even walk away with him anyway.

All I know is that I don't want to end up again with a 12-14 pick. I am ok with trying to win now, as I believe that in order to get great players today you have to either draft them (hard to do so at that range) or show what you can do for them, not the other way around.

Agreed completely.

Sorry, Ring. Poor structure on my part. I meant, did they really fall short? Meaning, did they really lose out on something valuable by not making the playoffs last year. I think you answered that from your perspective, but I didn't mean "did they really stand pat."

Xylus wrote:I think it's at least a month too early to be talking trades. The Suns have struggled to begin the season, but a lot of good teams do, especially when they've had a major subtraction (Frye) and a major addition (Isaiah) causing some havoc with rotations.

It's one thing to be settling in with new players, but that's not our only problem. The roster is talented and deep but also fundamentally flawed. It needs more balance and you can't get it from any other source but a trade. It doesn't need to be something major, but in my opinion adding another big man that can give you 20 decent minutes is imperative if you want to win with consistency.

Ring_Wanted wrote:

Xylus wrote:I think it's at least a month too early to be talking trades. The Suns have struggled to begin the season, but a lot of good teams do, especially when they've had a major subtraction (Frye) and a major addition (Isaiah) causing some havoc with rotations.

It's one thing to be settling in with new players, but that's not our only problem. The roster is talented and deep but also fundamentally flawed. It needs more balance and you can't get it from any other source but a trade. It doesn't need to be something major, but in my opinion adding another big man that can give you 20 decent minutes is imperative if you want to win with consistency.

We definitely lack a true big, but I think it's premature to start throwing names on the trade block when we don't really know what we have yet, how guys are going to perform, how much certain players have improved, etc.

Indy wrote:did they really lose out on something valuable by not making the playoffs last year

We can't tell what they thought. Maybe they felt they could get away with the best of both worlds. Maybe they were ok just ending up #9 in the west.

All I know is that by the trade deadline I could see we were going to need help if the team was to make the playoffs, beyond having Bledsoe back.

Ring_Wanted wrote:

Indy wrote:did they really lose out on something valuable by not making the playoffs last year

We can't tell what they thought. Maybe they felt they could get away with the best of both worlds. Maybe they were ok just ending up #9 in the west.

All I know is that by the trade deadline I could see we were going to need help if the team was to make the playoffs, beyond having Bledsoe back.

Agreed. I am just wondering how much that cost us (if anything).

But that is behind us, and now we need to focus on trading our entire roster for an average PF.

Mori Chu wrote: And McD probably wouldn't want to admit defeat so quickly on guys he has just signed.

Unfortunately, this is probably true.

Superbone wrote:

SDC wrote:maybe the suns should have tried to acquire pau gasol?

Interesting. Maybe you should have suggested it last season when we had the chance.

I did.

SDC wrote:

Superbone wrote:

SDC wrote:maybe the suns should have tried to acquire pau gasol?

Interesting. Maybe you should have suggested it last season when we had the chance.

I did.

I know. Many, many, many times.

SDC wrote: everybody's shooting percentages are down, except for thomas maybe.

Frye.

Indy wrote:

da_suns_fan wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

da_suns_fan wrote: They kind of remind me of the post Barkley team that started 0-13 (obviously theyre much better) but that team also had identity issues until they traded Finley and others for Jason Kidd.

That team didn't have identity issues; it was just an awful team that got a much needed overhaul during the season. Though this current team isn't awful, I would love to see it get a similar makeover.

It was an awful team that had a lot of average-good players. How can a team with KJ, Cassell, Finley, Danny Manning, Robert Horry, Tisdale, AC Green, Rex Chapman and even a rookie Steve Nash be "awful"?

Cassell and Horry didn't want to be here at all. Danny Manning was a shell of his former self. I am not going to even address Wayman at that time. Green was pretty much done too.

Um...he won sixth man of the year the next season.