Phx-Suns.Net

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2023 12:21 pm**

JeremyG wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 20, 2023 11:03 am

Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:40 pm
Jeremy G, are you aware that, unlike the head coach, there is no way a fan base can be fired?

Go find another scapegoat for your kid, because there is no way you blind squirrel your way into another “I was right” claim like that poll claiming Monty fired.

You are just becoming a punchline with your latest conspiracy theory, please, you are really good to engage with, when you are not aytonizing every discussion. But to each…
Lol, you still don't get it. The thread was not based on what I thought about DA. It was due to the fact that I knew Monty was on the hot seat, was on the verge of losing his team, and was likely to end the season in another flameout due to abysmal playoff coaching (along with a new owner coming in)--and nobody else seemed to recognize it or acknowledge it at the time.

You laugh all you want, but it’s just that hindsight works beautifully, people claiming for the end of the world will be proven right one day, it’s all I will say about that poll.

And obviously, Jeremy being Jeremy, you only engaged on the part that suits you, neglecting what I said about your new narrative: that we, the fan base, are creating another Ben Simmons on Ayton. Of course for you, it will never be his fault. Flash news: this is a job, a high demanding one, that pays him millions for performance, not by being a nice guy. That’s why most of people doesn’t cut any slack to Ayton. He is not a toddler learning to ride a bike, neither a freshman learning the ropes, he is a 5 year veteran with a maximum contract. This is not a scholarships program, it’s a performance based business he is in. The expectations he is failing to meet are not unreal, but what you want us to feel for him, on the other hand, it is.

My problem is that it’s becoming surrealistically obsessing for both sides, ruining my overall experience in this board, as anything have to be turned into an Ayton discussion, kind of those “how the Lakers’ next season will be affected by Monty Williams getting fired” headlines we just saw a while back. Absolutely ridiculous.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2023 12:24 pm**

Ya I think I’m going on an Ayton fast…I’m not going to discuss him or engage in a discussion about him anymore until we see him on the court or he’s traded. I just can’t do it anymore, it’s tiresome.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2023 1:40 pm**

JeremyG wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 20, 2023 11:02 am

Split T wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:53 am
The truth is almost all of us would immediately jump back to loving him if he played like he’s capable of on a consistent basis.
Yeah, that's the only part of this upcoming season that I'm not looking forward to--everybody jumping back on the bandwagon and acting like they've always loved and supported him.

Although I understand the criticisms and frustrations, I’ve never been part of the “Trade him!” chorus. So if he does have a breakout season, I hope I can cheer him without being considered a bandwagoner.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:43 pm**

The whole thing is silly. He was the #1 pick and the Suns first ever #1 pick. Of course there were a lot of expectations. The guy we almost picked went to the All Star game his first year. Ayton signed a max contract as well and with that comes expectations. He has performed well but, for many not worthy of a #1 pick and max contract well.

I met Ayton at an event and he was the nicest guy you will ever meet. None of that really matters. We can blame the coach, the fans, other players, the weather and whatever else we want to blame other than Ayton but, it really comes down to Ayton. If he plays great this year I will be ecstatic and I won’t give a damn about any perceived bandwagon bs. I’m all about the team succeeding and not codling feelings.

Vogel and Jones are saying the right things to pump up Ayton as much as possible. That makes perfect sense. I would too. Ayton is upset over all the criticism and is reportedly working his ass off in the off season. He has all the skills and size to achieve greatness. I think I speak for a majority of the fans when I say he is mostly being criticized for his lack of aggression and intensity, not skills. If you are upset that people are calling you weak and a pussy then show them you aren’t. I think Monty gave up on Ayton. I think Booker and others gave up on Ayton at the end of the season. Blame whomever you want for his shortcomings. It doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is if he performs well or not. If Booker plays at 100% aggression then Ayton is somewhere between 50-70% on most nights. Booker doesn’t need to be coddled. Ayton does.

I am getting tired of talking about it too. If Ayton comes out soft and plays like a pussy this year it will be par for the course. If he finally plays up to expectations I will be happy as a clam and won’t give a shit that someone will cal, me a bandwagon fan. I am a fan of whoever shows up and gives it all out on the court. Half assing it gets no respect from me. Blaming others gets no respect from me. Show up and do your damn job and play hard.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:02 pm**

Nodack wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:43 pm
The whole thing is silly. He was the #1 pick and the Suns first ever #1 pick. Of course there were a lot of expectations. The guy we almost picked went to the All Star game his first year. Ayton signed a max contract as well and with that comes expectations. He has performed well but, for many not worthy of a #1 pick and max contract well.

I met Ayton at an event and he was the nicest guy you will ever meet. None of that really matters. We can blame the coach, the fans, other players, the weather and whatever else we want to blame other than Ayton but, it really comes down to Ayton. If he plays great this year I will be ecstatic and I won’t give a damn about any perceived bandwagon bs. I’m all about the team succeeding and not codling feelings.

Vogel and Jones are saying the right things to pump up Ayton as much as possible. That makes perfect sense. I would too. Ayton is upset over all the criticism and is reportedly working his ass off in the off season. He has all the skills and size to achieve greatness. I think I speak for a majority of the fans when I say he is mostly being criticized for his lack of aggression and intensity, not skills. If you are upset that people are calling you weak and a pussy then show them you aren’t. I think Monty gave up on Ayton. I think Booker and others gave up on Ayton at the end of the season. Blame whomever you want for his shortcomings. It doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is if he performs well or not. If Booker plays at 100% aggression then Ayton is somewhere between 50-70% on most nights. Booker doesn’t need to be coddled. Ayton does.

I am getting tired of talking about it too. If Ayton comes out soft and plays like a pussy this year it will be par for the course. If he finally plays up to expectations I will be happy as a clam and won’t give a shit that someone will cal, me a bandwagon fan. I am a fan of whoever shows up and gives it all out on the court. Half assing it gets no respect from me. Blaming others gets no respect from me. Show up and do your damn job and play hard.

Word

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2023 11:03 pm**

Nodack wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:43 pm
I’m all about the team succeeding and not codling feelings.

Nodack wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:43 pm
Booker doesn’t need to be coddled. Ayton does.

Lol. Exactly. So sometimes players have to be coddled in order for the team to succeed.

Some coaches understand that; others do not.

Gambo went on to relate the following story:

"I remember, and I've told you this, I remember one day Matt Leinart called me after a practice and (says) 'This guy just doesn't like me.' I go, 'What do you mean?' He goes, 'He just doesn't like me. Like I don't respond well to a coach like this. I respond better to the guy who believes in you, and builds you up, and tells you you're the man, you're gonna do great.' And instead, he felt like Whis was tearing him down. Monty was tearing DA down too many times, without building him up. And after awhile, that wears on you."

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2023 12:42 am**

My wife and I refer to Ayton as "Butterfingers", so we don't have high expectation. However
Two seasons ago he shut down Jokić enough to advance "Suns in 4"
Ayton puts up decent stats all through the season year after year, and the way I look at it, with all this talent on the Suns right now, if he is an integral part of cruising us to a good playoff spot (as he has been in the past few seasons) and can limit Jokić enough for us to advance past the Nuggets, we're golden with this dude!

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2023 2:17 am**

2 years ago, Murray was injured and MPJ was still a rookie. It’s a lot easier to contain Jokic when he has no one to pass to. I think this whole shut Jokic down thing is blown out of proportion.

Yes Ayton could’ve done better. But bigger problems were, Durant didn’t know where guys were too often, too many turnovers. We waited too long to get Payne going, had he played from the start of the series he’d have been ready to go by games 4 and 5 instead of game 6.

But even more so all the chemistry and good vibes had been shot to s*** by the time the playoffs started.

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2023 3:07 am**

All you can hope for with Jokic is to make him work hard and keep things from being too easy for him. He's going to get his numbers, you just have to make him shoot 50% rather than 60%, or hold down his assists.

But the truth is in 2021 the Nuggets were shorthalnded and the Suns handled them pretty easily, and then last year the Suns were shorthanded and the Nuggets handled them fairly easily.

If your team isn't healthy in the playoffs you have no chance. The Suns were playing guys who shouldn't have been playing big minutes in the playoffs because they didn't have any other options.

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2023 3:46 am**

The Bobster wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 21, 2023 3:07 am
All you can hope for with Jokic is to make him work hard and keep things from being too easy for him. He's going to get his numbers, you just have to make him shoot 50% rather than 60%, or hold down his assists.

But the truth is in 2021 the Nuggets were shorthalnded and the Suns handled them pretty easily, and then last year the Suns were shorthanded and the Nuggets handled them fairly easily.

If your team isn't healthy in the playoffs you have no chance. The Suns were playing guys who shouldn't have been playing big minutes in the playoffs because they didn't have any other options.

Yes...but I wouldn't say that the last series was all that lopsided. The Nuggets were better, certainly, but a 4-2 series that was tied 2-2 is different from a sweep. Had the Suns not given up, it should have been a seven game series. The reason was that Booker went thermonuclear.

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:13 am**

My gift to you, JeremyG:

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:24 am**

Mori Chu wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:13 am
My gift to you, JeremyG:

Haha I just saw that last night!

I feel like a lot of the time people take for granted the fact that DA has never publicly said a bad word about the organization, any of his teammates, or even the coach who didn’t like him—not even once. He has always described any internal problems as “disagreements among family.” He even showed respect and love toward Monty Williams this last season, when he didn’t even want him on the team. He’s only talked about how much he loves Phoenix, how this is is home and he loves playing here. He’s never demanded a trade, or let contract negotiations or a bad relationship with his coach become a public distraction during the season. He’s been an exemplary member of the Suns organization and I feel like people have not appreciated that enough. Imagine what other players in his same situation might have done to disrupt things or demand out or cause drama.

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:38 am**

I am somewhere in the middle of the Ayton debate but if Vogel is some sort of ‘Ayton whisperer’ - who turns him into a force of nature on the defensive end, rebounding fiend and someone who gets opposing front court players in foul trouble with his relentless attack on the basket - we will win the championship. That’s how high the stakes are with him and why he polarises opinion so much.

I’m very skeptical he can get there but if he does with our fire power in Book, Kd and Beal, then we are going to be awfully hard to stop.

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2023 9:12 am**

JeremyG wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:24 am

Mori Chu wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:13 am
My gift to you, JeremyG:

Haha I just saw that last night!

I feel like a lot of the time people take for granted the fact that DA has never publicly said a bad word about the organization, any of his teammates, or even the coach who didn’t like him—not even once. He has always described any internal problems as “disagreements among family.” He even showed respect and love toward Monty Williams this last season, when he didn’t even want him on the team. He’s only talked about how much he loves Phoenix, how this is is home and he loves playing here. He’s never demanded a trade, or let contract negotiations or a bad relationship with his coach become a public distraction during the season. He’s been an exemplary member of the Suns organization and I feel like people have not appreciated that enough. Imagine what other players in his same situation might have done to disrupt things or demand out or cause drama.

Deandre is so nice and good and sweet and cool, everyone else is stupid and smelly.

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2023 9:18 am**

Gladiator wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:38 am
I am somewhere in the middle of the Ayton debate but if Vogel is some sort of ‘Ayton whisperer’ - who turns him into a force of nature on the defensive end, rebounding fiend and someone who gets opposing front court players in foul trouble with his relentless attack on the basket - we will win the championship. That’s how high the stakes are with him and why he polarises opinion so much.

I’m very skeptical he can get there but if he does with our fire power in Book, Kd and Beal, then we are going to be awfully hard to stop.

Great point.

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2023 9:35 am**

With what the team is looking like, Ayton should channel his inner Shawn Marion and play d, rebound the ball, and score opportunistically. All star in the NBA today.

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2023 9:37 am**

JeremyG wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 20, 2023 11:02 am

Split T wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:53 am
The truth is almost all of us would immediately jump back to loving him if he played like he’s capable of on a consistent basis.
Yeah, that's the only part of this upcoming season that I'm not looking forward to--everybody jumping back on the bandwagon and acting like they've always loved and supported him.

Nobody is going to do that. If he is great next year, folks will rightfully praise him. That doesn't mean they'll claim to have always loved him. It's a good thing if you reassess your opinion based on new information. By the same token, if you thought DA was a star in the making after the great 2021 playoffs/Finals run, the last two years of new information would also give you pause about that assessment.

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2023 9:38 am**

https://arizonasports.com/story/3528641 ... narrative/

Deandre Ayton’s latest message about changing narratives felt heavier

“My goal this whole summer is to change the narrative, just unlock whatever it is …”

Unlock whatever it is?

That is bothersome because you can’t fix the problem you can’t find. Even if it’s staring right back at you in the mirror.

I'm with Bickley that this bothered me. How can he fix what he's not aware of it. And how can he not know?! He hears all this external hate but has no idea why?

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:28 am**

Everyone is parsing every word of his comments way too carefully, lol. And Bickley went way over the line talking about his middle name.

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:36 am**

We're probably not talking about his middle name enough.

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