Around the League: Week 18 2/20 - 2/26

[Hermen]

Carey, your read?

They don't have any shooters is their biggest problem. Also, if you're going to build around two big men in today's NBA you need to do it the Grizzlies' way. Slow it down and make the game difficult for the other team. They don't play that way. They are trying to run Alvin's offense with 2 big guys. If the limited sample is any indication then it's not going to work.

Maybe they should have included Joerger in the Cousins trade

[O_Gardino]

Record wise Houston and OKC are not great, despite crazy numbers by Westbrook and Harden. GSW is not winning more than last season and we've seen better from Durant and Curry. I'd give it to LeBron. Or Kawhi.

How is Houston's record not great? They have basically the same winning percentage as the Cavs.

I think they are on pace to win 57, which is good but not great. There have been plenty of MVPs at about 57 wins, though. What's special about Houston is that they are going to be +16 from last season, which is a very good jump. Very few teams loose an allstar center, put the ball in the hands of one guy, and improve by 16 games. It says something good about Harden and MikeD, and something bad about Howard and how badly the Rockets under performed last season.

OKC is on pace to win 48 after winning 55 last year. After losing KD for nothing, and starting a rookie in place of Ibaka, it it remarkable that they are going so well. And it will be historically special for an MVP to come from a team that has so few wins and is winning less than the year before.

IIRC, Nash has the lowest win total for an MVP. He won his second MVP under similar circumstances, winning 54 (down from 62). He was widely criticized as a media darling who didn't deserve the award. Then he took that team to the Western Conf Finals basically singlehandedly.

[Ring_Wanted]

How is Houston's record not great? They have basically the same winning percentage as the Cavs.

Neither is great It's a very interesting debate, but if I don't see one clear cut winner, I'd resort to default and go with the baddest beast of our time, who also happens to be pulling a 25/9/8 (and I am selling him short).

[UglyTruth]

Watching OKC vs NOP right now. Looks like Pelicans are headed for another loss, 0-3 since Boogie showed up. Westbrook has over 30-10-10 again tonight, and for the season. Ridiculous. Gotta be the MVP.

The Pels have a big 2 and nothing else. Jrue has been trash lately and they have no 3-point shooting. They are playing guys they just signed off the street. Hollis Thompson and Reggie Williams.

They need a 3 & D PG who knows his role.

I could see them maybe trying to pull a trade for Delladadova this summer.

Sorry. Bucks need a 3&D guy as well, and if Delly isn't cutting it over there, he's not gonna make a difference to the Pelicans either.

I like Delly a lot more in Gentry's system than in Kidd's.

[Mori Chu]

How is Houston's record not great? They have basically the same winning percentage as the Cavs.

Neither is great It's a very interesting debate, but if I don't see one clear cut winner, I'd resort to default and go with the baddest beast of our time, who also happens to be pulling a 25/9/8 (and I am selling him short).

What does that even mean? And if it has meaning at all, how is Westbrook not as much of a "beast"? Have you seen him mean-mugging after a nasty dunk in traffic?

[Split T]

31/10/10 or 29/11/8. I'd go with Harden right now because I think Houston is a legit contender. Does he mean more to his team than Westbrook? Probably not, but I'm not sure Westbrook means more to his team either. I won't argue with a vote for westbrook(or James or kawhi) but Harden would get my vote right now.

[pickle]

They need a 3 & D PG who knows his role.

I could see them maybe trying to pull a trade for Delladadova this summer.

Sorry. Bucks need a 3&D guy as well, and if Delly isn't cutting it over there, he's not gonna make a difference to the Pelicans either.

I like Delly a lot more in Gentry's system than in Kidd's.

That is true. I was pretty high on Delly and Tele signings for Milwaukee and they both fizzled so maybe I'm unnecessarily biased against those two players right now. On the other hand does Gentry really have a system? He seems to have all the same problems that Hornacek has.

[O_Gardino]

They need a 3 & D PG who knows his role.

I could see them maybe trying to pull a trade for Delladadova this summer.

Sorry. Bucks need a 3&D guy as well, and if Delly isn't cutting it over there, he's not gonna make a difference to the Pelicans either.

I like Delly a lot more in Gentry's system than in Kidd's.

That is true. I was pretty high on Delly and Tele signings for Milwaukee and they both fizzled so maybe I'm unnecessarily biased against those two players right now. On the other hand does Gentry really have a system? He seems to have all the same problems that Hornacek has.

Mismatched rosters?

In all honesty, I think coaches are still figuring out where the mobile big men fit into a modern nba offense.

[pickle]

Well, that, but also I think he's not a strong willed coach so he has trouble managing personalities. AD seems to be a gentle giant, but Boogie is anything but. I can't see how Gentry could implement his system, whatever that may be, with strong personalities like that on the team, and I also can't see how he could extract value out of other peripheral guys like Delly if he cannot keep his main guys under control...

[pickle]

Carey, your read?

They don't have any shooters is their biggest problem. Also, if you're going to build around two big men in today's NBA you need to do it the Grizzlies' way. Slow it down and make the game difficult for the other team. They don't play that way. They are trying to run Alvin's offense with 2 big guys. If the limited sample is any indication then it's not going to work.

Thanks for this... but I'm also curious how the New Orleans fan base feels about Moore and Hill... Are they hated as much as, say, Knight is hated here? Or is the front office considered at fault for those signings? I guess I just came from that Knight of the shining table thread so ... yeah.

[Ring_Wanted]

How is Houston's record not great? They have basically the same winning percentage as the Cavs.

Neither is great It's a very interesting debate, but if I don't see one clear cut winner, I'd resort to default and go with the baddest beast of our time, who also happens to be pulling a 25/9/8 (and I am selling him short).

What does that even mean? And if it has meaning at all, how is Westbrook not as much of a "beast"? Have you seen him mean-mugging after a nasty dunk in traffic?

That means LeBron is the most unstoppable force in the NBA today. More than Westbrook, not only because of size, but also the way he settles the rest of his teammates. When you watch CLE play, you see everything revolves around LeBron and he is passing more/better than ever while shooting like when he was at his absolute peak at MIA. With OKC, everybody is watching Westbrook do his thing, even gifting him defensive rebounds (don't mistake this as hate, I see the merit in giving the ball to the crazy quick guy as soon as possible). I don't want to take anything away form Westbrook, because he is awesome, but if the wins factor doesn't apply to OKC (currently #7 in the West), I'd be very hesitant to give him the MVP. I know most people would go with Westbrook or Harden, but it's LeBron or Kawhi to me.

[UglyTruth]

They need a 3 & D PG who knows his role.

I could see them maybe trying to pull a trade for Delladadova this summer.

Sorry. Bucks need a 3&D guy as well, and if Delly isn't cutting it over there, he's not gonna make a difference to the Pelicans either.

I like Delly a lot more in Gentry's system than in Kidd's.

That is true. I was pretty high on Delly and Tele signings for Milwaukee and they both fizzled so maybe I'm unnecessarily biased against those two players right now. On the other hand does Gentry really have a system? He seems to have all the same problems that Hornacek has.

He seems to have a system similar to D'Antoni.

Hornacek, idk what exactly his system was. Kinda similar to Watson, pick and roll or iso.

[O_Gardino]

How is Houston's record not great? They have basically the same winning percentage as the Cavs.

Neither is great It's a very interesting debate, but if I don't see one clear cut winner, I'd resort to default and go with the baddest beast of our time, who also happens to be pulling a 25/9/8 (and I am selling him short).

What does that even mean? And if it has meaning at all, how is Westbrook not as much of a "beast"? Have you seen him mean-mugging after a nasty dunk in traffic?

That means LeBron is the most unstoppable force in the NBA today. More than Westbrook, not only because of size, but also the way he settles the rest of his teammates. When you watch CLE play, you see everything revolves around LeBron and he is passing more/better than ever while shooting like when he was at his absolute peak at MIA. With OKC, everybody is watching Westbrook do his thing, even gifting him defensive rebounds (don't mistake this as hate, I see the merit in giving the ball to the crazy quick guy as soon as possible). I don't want to take anything away form Westbrook, because he is awesome, but if the wins factor doesn't apply to OKC (currently #7 in the West), I'd be very hesitant to give him the MVP. I know most people would go with Westbrook or Harden, but it's LeBron or Kawhi to me.

James is MVP every year, just like Jordan was MVP every year. I wouldn't blame anyone for voting for him. But we have a longstanding tradition of giving the award to a great player on a surprisingly good team. It's a bit of politics, really, but there would be no point in the award if you gave it to the same guy 10 years in a row.

[pickle]

That means LeBron is the most unstoppable force in the NBA today. More than Westbrook, not only because of size, but also the way he settles the rest of his teammates. When you watch CLE play, you see everything revolves around LeBron and he is passing more/better than ever while shooting like when he was at his absolute peak at MIA. With OKC, everybody is watching Westbrook do his thing, even gifting him defensive rebounds (don't mistake this as hate, I see the merit in giving the ball to the crazy quick guy as soon as possible). I don't want to take anything away form Westbrook, because he is awesome, but if the wins factor doesn't apply to OKC (currently #7 in the West), I'd be very hesitant to give him the MVP. I know most people would go with Westbrook or Harden, but it's LeBron or Kawhi to me.

James is MVP every year, just like Jordan was MVP every year. I wouldn't blame anyone for voting for him. But we have a longstanding tradition of giving the award to a great player on a surprisingly good team. It's a bit of politics, really, but there would be no point in the award if you gave it to the same guy 10 years in a row.

I agree with this. We can debate who is indeed the most impactful player in the league but the actual voting by humans with all those humanly faults means that LeBron is not part of this conversation. The sooner we agree on this the quicker we can go back to arguing Harden vs. Westbrook.

[Split T]

I would argue that lebron being considered the MVP this year would have to be solely on past reputation. Statistically, there are more efficient players(kawhi, Durant, IT), there are players who put up bigger numbers(harden and Westbrook) and many of those(kawhi, Durant, IT, Harden) are on teams that are at the least, playing at a level within a couple games of the cavs. Is he the best player? Maybe, but if he is, he must be coasting a bit or saving himself for the playoffs, because he's not statistically the best.

My current ballot would go Harden-Westbrook-Kawhi-IT-Lebron

[TOO]

IT is NOT in anyway more efficient than LeBron. MVP leaders for me are the leagues 2 best, LeBron, then Kawhi.

[Split T]

IT is NOT in anyway more efficient than LeBron. MVP leaders for me are the leagues 2 best, LeBron, then Kawhi.

He's actually more efficient in many ways. His PER is higher, his true shooting % is higher, he's got a lower turnover rate.

[TOO]

IT is NOT in anyway more efficient than LeBron. MVP leaders for me are the leagues 2 best, LeBron, then Kawhi.

He's actually more efficient in many ways. His PER is higher, his true shooting % is higher, he's got a lower turnover rate.

PER is an offensive stat, means squat. LeBron shoots a higher % from the field and 3. LeBron also plays defense at a high level, something I consider efficient, Thomas is a trashcan defensively. Where's the nerd stat that measure defensive energy expended? Nerds have a stat for everything. I hate true shooting percentage, if youre a guy who dunks all the time, it will be super high, look at DJordan, cant shoot a lick, yet there he is. Silly nerd stats.

[Mori Chu]

The advanced stats on defense are still a bit lacking. Ignoring a players contributions or weaknesses on that end is too costly.

[Split T]

IT is NOT in anyway more efficient than LeBron. MVP leaders for me are the leagues 2 best, LeBron, then Kawhi.

He's actually more efficient in many ways. His PER is higher, his true shooting % is higher, he's got a lower turnover rate.

PER is an offensive stat, means squat. LeBron shoots a higher % from the field and 3. LeBron also plays defense at a high level, something I consider efficient, Thomas is a trashcan defensively. Where's the nerd stat that measure defensive energy expended? Nerds have a stat for everything. I hate true shooting percentage, if youre a guy who dunks all the time, it will be super high, look at DJordan, cant shoot a lick, yet there he is. Silly nerd stats.

So offense means squat? I get that PER doesn't measure defense, but it shows that IT is a more efficient offensive player. I won't argue defensively, LeBron is better. As for true shooting percentage, yes it can be misleading with guys that just dunk, but that's a terrible argument to make against IT, who's probably never dunked in his life. The truth is IT scores more per shot than LeBron and I would bet he gets less easy baskets than LeBron.