Phx-Suns.Net

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:31 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:12 am

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:18 am

iLLmatic wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:04 pm

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:19 pm

I have not watched a lot. Probably my lowest ever since the NBA became fully avilable to me.

But you know what? I have certainly watched enough. Actually I've watched too much.

I'm at about 5 this year, I'm certainly not a warrior like some of the rest of y'all.

I'm certainly not one one of those hustlers. I've watched only around 15, and some were on and off. To me it became unbearable when I realized we were not ready to take advantage of Ayton. At this point I am focused on the rest of the league. There are too many interesting things going on and we know what PHX is and what is not. A big trade at the deadline would have injected life, but we saw what they did instead. The era of Bledsoe-Kieff, etc was the dumb and ugly ball and it was hard enough to stay. What has followed is the impotence and sterility era on all levels and I can't take it anymore.

Then it’s hard for you to “For the life of me” anything. I’ve watched 90% of the games. The distinction between TJ, JJ, Bridges and Oubre is so, so much more than the box score.

Man are you telling me I don't know who is who on this team because I have not watched enough? Of course there is more than stats. But honestly I don't know what you mean with the quote. Do you feel attacked or am I missing something?

You said you can’t unserstabs for the life of you why people would advocate for JJ or Oubre over Warren. Granted, I think they all suck- but if you’re just looking at box scores and not actually watching the games, you can’t make a judgment really on who is truly impactful. TJ puts up points which are sexy, but if the three he’s esily the worst at everything else

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:43 am

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:31 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:12 am

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:18 am

iLLmatic wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:04 pm

I'm at about 5 this year, I'm certainly not a warrior like some of the rest of y'all.

I'm certainly not one one of those hustlers. I've watched only around 15, and some were on and off. To me it became unbearable when I realized we were not ready to take advantage of Ayton. At this point I am focused on the rest of the league. There are too many interesting things going on and we know what PHX is and what is not. A big trade at the deadline would have injected life, but we saw what they did instead. The era of Bledsoe-Kieff, etc was the dumb and ugly ball and it was hard enough to stay. What has followed is the impotence and sterility era on all levels and I can't take it anymore.

Then it’s hard for you to “For the life of me” anything. I’ve watched 90% of the games. The distinction between TJ, JJ, Bridges and Oubre is so, so much more than the box score.

Man are you telling me I don't know who is who on this team because I have not watched enough? Of course there is more than stats. But honestly I don't know what you mean with the quote. Do you feel attacked or am I missing something?

You said you can’t unserstabs for the life of you why people would advocate for JJ or Oubre over Warren. Granted, I think they all suck- but if you’re just looking at box scores and not actually watching the games, you can’t make a judgment really on who is truly impactful. TJ puts up points which are sexy, but if the three he’s esily the worst at everything else

Are you telling me Jackson and Oubre are more impactful than Warren? Where do they make the impact? Jackson is a net negative and Oubre is average (and don't forget he is playing for a contract). To me is a nobrainer keeping Warre and Bridges, trading Jackson and not re-signing Oubre unless it is to a bargain deal.

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:59 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:43 am

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:31 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:12 am

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:18 am

I'm certainly not one one of those hustlers. I've watched only around 15, and some were on and off. To me it became unbearable when I realized we were not ready to take advantage of Ayton. At this point I am focused on the rest of the league. There are too many interesting things going on and we know what PHX is and what is not. A big trade at the deadline would have injected life, but we saw what they did instead. The era of Bledsoe-Kieff, etc was the dumb and ugly ball and it was hard enough to stay. What has followed is the impotence and sterility era on all levels and I can't take it anymore.

Then it’s hard for you to “For the life of me” anything. I’ve watched 90% of the games. The distinction between TJ, JJ, Bridges and Oubre is so, so much more than the box score.

Man are you telling me I don't know who is who on this team because I have not watched enough? Of course there is more than stats. But honestly I don't know what you mean with the quote. Do you feel attacked or am I missing something?

You said you can’t unserstabs for the life of you why people would advocate for JJ or Oubre over Warren. Granted, I think they all suck- but if you’re just looking at box scores and not actually watching the games, you can’t make a judgment really on who is truly impactful. TJ puts up points which are sexy, but if the three he’s esily the worst at everything else

Are you telling me Jackson and Oubre are more impactful than Warren? Where do they make the impact? Jackson is a net negative and Oubre is average (and don't forget he is playing for a contract). To me is a nobrainer keeping Warre and Bridges, trading Jackson and not re-signing Oubre unless it is to a bargain deal.

Wow I didn’t proofread my last post at all, lol. Yes, for JJs age, his durability thus far, his passion on both ends of the court. I think he is much more impactful. Good or bad. TJ just doesn’t move the needle. He somehow manages to score the least impactful 20 points I’ve ever seen, often disappears in close games, and misses half the year with injuries. His weaknesses are exactly that of Booker and Ayton, so he is not a good complement. In theory, Josh and Kelly pick up where Book and Ayton are deficient, but in all honestly I’m not a huge fan of either of them. The only 3 I am invested in is Mikal.

I still don't see what everyone says when they mention Josh Jackson's defense. If we are comparing his defense to Warren sure, but JJs defense is as plain Jane as they come.

Let's not act like 20ppg scorers grow on trees here, and let's not forget Warren's ability to improve his 3 point shooting this year. Warren is far from perfect but he's on a great contract and offers us go to scoring when no one else on the team can provide that right now except Booker.

iLLmatic wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:52 pm

I still don't see what everyone says when they mention Josh Jackson's defense. If we are comparing his defense to Warren sure, but JJs defense is as plain Jane as they come.

Let's not act like 20ppg scorers grow on trees here, and let's not forget Warren's ability to improve his 3 point shooting this year. Warren is far from perfect but he's on a great contract and offers us go to scoring when no one else on the team can provide that right now except Booker.

I wouldn’t call warren a go to scorer. He scores well in the flow of the offense, but he’s not an iso guy. And no one has a problem with warren as a scorer and shooter, it’s his lack of anything else that is the problem. That coupled with his injury issues and the fact that he plays at our deepest position and is probably the worst fit of the 4 next to booker/Ayton make him expendable. His good contract means we should be able to get something of value back in return.

iLLmatic wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:52 pm

I still don't see what everyone says when they mention Josh Jackson's defense. If we are comparing his defense to Warren sure, but JJs defense is as plain Jane as they come.

Let's not act like 20ppg scorers grow on trees here, and let's not forget Warren's ability to improve his 3 point shooting this year. Warren is far from perfect but he's on a great contract and offers us go to scoring when no one else on the team can provide that right now except Booker.

Exactly. Split talks about how he plays our deepest position. But depth is an abundance of good players and we don't have that if you remove Warren. Jackson's defense is a myth and he is terrible overall and Oubre is just average (and soon to be paid). There is no way I choose those two over the proven scorer and the real 3D prospect on a rookie contract.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:55 pm

Wow I didn’t proofread my last post at all, lol. Yes, for JJs age, his durability thus far, his passion on both ends of the court. I think he is much more impactful. Good or bad. TJ just doesn’t move the needle. He somehow manages to score the least impactful 20 points I’ve ever seen, often disappears in close games, and misses half the year with injuries. His weaknesses are exactly that of Booker and Ayton, so he is not a good complement. In theory, Josh and Kelly pick up where Book and Ayton are deficient, but in all honestly I’m not a huge fan of either of them. The only 3 I am invested in is Mikal.

'unserstabs ' hahah.
'good or bad'. This is terrifying. Jackson is harmful to the team way more often than not. You can't have that playing a big role on a limited team.

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:11 am

iLLmatic wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:52 pm

I still don't see what everyone says when they mention Josh Jackson's defense. If we are comparing his defense to Warren sure, but JJs defense is as plain Jane as they come.

Let's not act like 20ppg scorers grow on trees here, and let's not forget Warren's ability to improve his 3 point shooting this year. Warren is far from perfect but he's on a great contract and offers us go to scoring when no one else on the team can provide that right now except Booker.

Exactly. Split talks about how he plays our deepest position. But depth is an abundance of good players and we don't have that if you remove Warren. Jackson's defense is a myth and he is terrible overall and Oubre is just average (and soon to be paid). There is no way I choose those two over the proven scorer and the real 3D prospect on a rookie contract.

If you make a list of decent rotation players, it would look like this:

PG - 0
SG - 1
SF - 3
PF - 0
C - 2

That isn’t balanced. We really need a decent player at the 1 and 4. I’d be happy to keep Warren if we could find those players without using him, but I’m not sure we can. As for why warren and not the others, I don’t consider Jackson a decent rotation player yet and I don’t think he’d bring a decent rotation player back in a trade. Oubre is a impending FA and we don’t really have any leverage to trade him for a good piece. As for Bridges, yes, I simply would rather keep Bridges over warren as I think he makes more sense with our roster.

So to recap, I’d keep warren if:

We can add a 1 and 4 without trading him.
Or we could find someone willing to give us a decent rotation player in exchange for Jackson.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:45 am

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:11 am

iLLmatic wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:52 pm

I still don't see what everyone says when they mention Josh Jackson's defense. If we are comparing his defense to Warren sure, but JJs defense is as plain Jane as they come.

Let's not act like 20ppg scorers grow on trees here, and let's not forget Warren's ability to improve his 3 point shooting this year. Warren is far from perfect but he's on a great contract and offers us go to scoring when no one else on the team can provide that right now except Booker.

Exactly. Split talks about how he plays our deepest position. But depth is an abundance of good players and we don't have that if you remove Warren. Jackson's defense is a myth and he is terrible overall and Oubre is just average (and soon to be paid). There is no way I choose those two over the proven scorer and the real 3D prospect on a rookie contract.

If you make a list of decent rotation players, it would look like this:

PG - 0
SG - 1
SF - 3
PF - 0
C - 2

That isn’t balanced. We really need a decent player at the 1 and 4. I’d be happy to keep Warren if we could find those players without using him, but I’m not sure we can. As for why warren and not the others, I don’t consider Jackson a decent rotation player yet and I don’t think he’d bring a decent rotation player back in a trade. Oubre is a impending FA and we don’t really have any leverage to trade him for a good piece. As for Bridges, yes, I simply would rather keep Bridges over warren as I think he makes more sense with our roster.

So to recap, I’d keep warren if:

We can add a 1 and 4 without trading him.
Or we could find someone willing to give us a decent rotation player in exchange for Jackson.

This.

And my ranking of SF would be TJ, Bridges, then Oubre (really worried that he is playing for a contract this year and we won't see the fire in 2020).

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:45 am

So to recap, I’d keep warren if:

We can add a 1 and 4 without trading him.
Or we could find someone willing to give us a decent rotation player in exchange for Jackson.

I am of a different mindset. Not untouchable, but I am not actively looking to move him. Jackson? I am. Oubre? Really don't wanna pay. I like Bridges and Melton. Okobo has my curiosity but the need is obvious. There is cap space, expiring contracts, draft picks. We have enough ammo to pull an overhaul that delivers a balanced roster with potential, which includes a PG and a PF compatible with Ayton. Holmes' ridiculous cap hold is nice.

Do you see warren as our starting sf? Or do you see him more as a 6th man? Just curious.

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:12 pm

Do you see warren as our starting sf? Or do you see him more as a 6th man? Just curious.

I can take either depending on what's around. Do you see Oubre as a starter? Do you want to give Jackson more time?

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:16 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:12 pm

Do you see warren as our starting sf? Or do you see him more as a 6th man? Just curious.

I can take either depending on what's around. Do you see Oubre as a starter? Do you want to give Jackson more time?

No to Oubre. I actually think we should let Oubre walk. I like him and think he’s brought some good things to the table, but I think I’d rather use the cap space elsewhere.

As for Jackson, do you mean more time as in minutes on the court? That answer would be no. If you mean more time to develop into something, then yes I’m in favor of that. I would still trade him though if the right deal came along.

My vision for the team next year would start Booker, Bridges, and Ayton. The bench would have Melton, Jackson, and Holmes. We need to add a starting pg and pf through draft/trades/free agency. There are a lot of avenues we could go down to accomplish that. I think moving Warren is part of most of those avenues.

If it came down to you can only keep either Warren or Jackson and the rest of the roster will fill out exactly the same, I’d almost definitely keep Warren, but I just don’t envision getting as much value out of moving Jackson.

Why does everybody just assume Oubre is playing for a contract and thinks he'll be a lazy bum after getting his contract?

My PG wish list. This is factoring in what they would likely cost in a trade or in free agency. I don't view Kemba as realistic:

IDEAL
1 - Conley
2 - Jrue (I like him better than Conley, but he will cost much more)

3(tie) - Brogdon
3(tie) - Lonzo

COULD TALK MYSELF IN TO
5 - D'Angelo

WHAT ARE WE DOING AT PF??
6 - Morant
7 - Marcus Smart (higher if we get a lights-out shooter at PF)
8 - Rubio (same note as smart)
9 - Teague
10 - Dragic

MEH - Guaranteed missing the playoffs
11 - Darius Garland
12 - Rozier
13 - TJ McConnell
14 - Lin
15 - Cory Joseph
16 - Napier
16 - Patrick Beverly
17 - Tyus Jones
18 - Delon Wright
19 - George Hill

I would not be surprised to see Jackson traded after he embarrassed the franchise.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:30 pm

I would not be surprised to see Jackson traded after he embarrassed the franchise.

When people talk about the dysfunction in the Suns’ organization, JJ’s no-show at Fry’s hardly rates a mention. If Sarver tries to scapegoat JJ for the franchise’s embarrassment, the talking heads will talk only about what a hypocritical asshole Sarver is being, and also an idiot because trading a player away from this shit show for his behavior is actually rewarding the behavior.

Of course I wouldn’t put it past Sarver to make the occasional PR blunder, but this one would be too obvious even for him.

It's worth mentioning if JJ has gone to the dark side and is in "I don't give a f-k" mode now.

What did I miss?

carey wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:16 pm

What did I miss?

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