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Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:55 am

iLLmatic wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:35 am

Booker hasn’t looked the same since that run to the finals.

I’m curious why people think this…after the finals run he made all-nba 1st team and finished 4th in the mvp race, made another all-nba 3rd team, and also had one of the best 11 game runs in the playoffs statistically. He’s also won two gold medals after that finals run.

also, the regular season following the Finals was the last piece of the CP3 glory days before the colossal collapse and internal turmoil in the playoffs -- the mysterious dysfunction behind the scenes. Though only one player remains, the mystery dysfunction continues.

there's a clue in last night's post-game comment

"slow bleed out, ya know, i've been feeling this way for the majority of the season" -Booker, post game

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 10:15 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:55 am

iLLmatic wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:35 am

Booker hasn’t looked the same since that run to the finals.

I’m curious why people think this…after the finals run he made all-nba 1st team and finished 4th in the mvp race, made another all-nba 3rd team, and also had one of the best 11 game runs in the playoffs statistically. He’s also won two gold medals after that finals run.

He has had a small but noticeable drop-off this season. The stats don't indicate a huge regression, but rather a mild one. He's down 1.4 ppg, down 3% on his 3pt% (36 to 33%), down about 4% on overall FG%, down 0.4 reb (4.5 to 4.1), up 0.2 in ast (6.9 to 7.1), up 0.3 in turnovers (2.6 to 2.9).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... ede01.html

None of that is especially noteworthy. But the eye test tells a different story. He seems more passive this year, his shooting seems a bit off, and his overall rhythm and flow on offense have seemed worse, especially when sharing the floor with KD and Beal. I think he's been kind of feasting on these games where he's playing solo lately to boost his stats back up, and if you just looked at the games when the whole Big 3 played, I bet the regression would be more stark.

I say all of that as a Booker defender and a guy who doesn't want to trade him. But he has definitely not had his best year. He deservedly wasn't an All-Star this season and is not even close to sniffing an All-NBA team.

It's not uncommon or unexpected for guys who play all summer have a bit of a down season. He's just not as sharp or aggressive this year, and I put that down to energy. He didn't rest over the summer, and he doesn't have the energy to will this team to wins night in and night out. Apparently there's nobody else on the team who can step up.

I believe a lot of Booker’s struggles this season is simply having to wear too many different hats due to terrible roster construction. Book been our primary pg for 2 seasons now, surrounded by multiple players his size or smaller, that aren’t athletic and worst defenders, combine with ass center play. You are asking Book to be a table setter pg, a primary scoring option on offense, then be able to guard fast pgs or big fuckin wings on defense, while also helping with rebounding too cuz this team collectively sucks at it.

All the top guards in this league comparable to Book have players that help in that regard:

SGA has Dort, Caruso + multiple wing defenders so he doesn’t have to.

Luka gots DFS and Vanderbilt for defense.

Ant isn’t ask to be pg on his team, he has Conely to do that, plus multiple high level defensive wings to guard multiple positions in McDaniels and NAW.

Luka and SGA are offensive engines in a way Book will never be but even they got help to relieve them of ball handlers duties when needed.

Most people would put those 3 players ahead of book but all them have much better rosters around them to fill in the holes. I know that’s an obvious point but when you look at all the most successful Book years, he had a supporting cast to fill in the holes, this current team has multiple glaring weaknesses that we did nothing to fix the last two years.

After trading for KD, this team just needed to continue to build around the margins to help Book and KD, instead we got to bold with getting Beal, trying to build a super team, making the worst possible Ayton trade imaginable, plus the 2nd apron rules kicked in. Poor decision after poor decision, now we are in the fuckin gutter. Ishbia and crew absolutely fucked the pooch. Jeez.

1tinsoldier wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 12:33 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:55 am

iLLmatic wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:35 am

Booker hasn’t looked the same since that run to the finals.

I’m curious why people think this…after the finals run he made all-nba 1st team and finished 4th in the mvp race, made another all-nba 3rd team, and also had one of the best 11 game runs in the playoffs statistically. He’s also won two gold medals after that finals run.

check Russell Westbrook's individual achievements too while your at it
(far more than Booker, btw)
and his team's success
i should say, his many, many team's success (5 in 5 years)
-- team's that had the good sense to move his poor-decision-making ass

The question is whether Booker has been going downhill since the finals. We are only comparing 2021 Booker to post 2021 Booker, so I’m not sure why you are bringing Russell Westbrook into this.

iLLmatic wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:35 am

Booker hasn’t looked the same since that run to the finals.

This is what I keep trying to tell everyone. Perhaps it’s his bad hamstring. He was never super athletic, but he hasn’t had the same athleticism or defensive ability since then.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 10:15 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:55 am

iLLmatic wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:35 am

Booker hasn’t looked the same since that run to the finals.

I’m curious why people think this…after the finals run he made all-nba 1st team and finished 4th in the mvp race, made another all-nba 3rd team, and also had one of the best 11 game runs in the playoffs statistically. He’s also won two gold medals after that finals run.

He has had a small but noticeable drop-off this season. The stats don't indicate a huge regression, but rather a mild one. He's down 1.4 ppg, down 3% on his 3pt% (36 to 33%), down about 4% on overall FG%, down 0.4 reb (4.5 to 4.1), up 0.2 in ast (6.9 to 7.1), up 0.3 in turnovers (2.6 to 2.9).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... ede01.html

You have to compare using per 36, though, since he’s averaging over 36 minutes per game this season.

Here’s some per-36 numbers randomized by year for each of the last 5 years for Booker(Finals year plus the next 4), plus a surprise 6th option. Rank them in order:

A. 27.1 pts, 4.5 reb, 6.9 ast, 2.6 TO, 49/36/89 .611 TS
B. 27.2 pts, 4.5 reb, 4.6 ast, 3.3 TO, 48/34/87 .587 TS
C. 28.0 pts, 5.3 reb, 5.1 ast, 2.5 TO, 47/38/87 .576 TS
D. 24.8 pts, 3.9 reb, 6.8 ast, 2.8 TO, 46/33/89 .588 TS
E. 28.9 pts, 4.7 reb, 5.7 ast, 2.8 TO, 49/35/86 .601 TS
F. 25.2 pts, 4.6 reb, 4.7 ast, 2.4 TO, 49/39/90 .603 TS

Booker's record
----with Chris Paul 114-48
Without Chris Paul 196-291

true superstars make everyone better
that's what Paul did for Booker and the players on every team he played for

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 2:42 pm

The question is whether Booker has been going downhill since the finals. We are only comparing 2021 Booker to post 2021 Booker, so I’m not sure why you are bringing Russell Westbrook into this.

i'd bring Carmelo Anthony and Allen Iverson into the equation as well if you want to tout Booker's personal offensive achievements

empty stat-getters with no results
Booker Ball = Carmelo Ball = Iverson Ball

even Dan Bickley just changed his tune and is calling for Booker to be traded because he "won't be worth 70 million", he's "not the player he used to be" and "results matter"

So we’re comparing him to one of the 25 greatest players of all time? And you think it’s fair to include Bookers early 20s when he was staring alongside Tyler Ulis, Dragan Bender, and Márquese Chriss? Michael Jordan couldn’t have won with that team.

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 5:15 pm

So we’re comparing him to one of the 25 greatest players of all time? And you think it’s fair to include Bookers early 20s when he was staring alongside Tyler Ulis, Dragan Bender, and Márquese Chriss? Michael Jordan couldn’t have won with that team.

so you're comparing him to the greatest player of all time?

1tinsoldier wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 5:13 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 2:42 pm

The question is whether Booker has been going downhill since the finals. We are only comparing 2021 Booker to post 2021 Booker, so I’m not sure why you are bringing Russell Westbrook into this.

i'd bring Carmelo Anthony and Allen Iverson into the equation as well if you want to tout Booker's personal offensive achievements

empty stat-getters with no results
Booker Ball = Carmelo Ball = Iverson Ball

even Dan Bickley just changed his tune and is calling for Booker to be traded because he "won't be worth 70 million", he's "not the player he used to be" and "results matter"

You’re missing the point. The question is whether Booker went downhill after the finals…bringing anyone else into the discussion is irrelevant.

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 5:17 pm

You’re missing the point. The question is whether Booker went downhill after the finals…bringing anyone else into the discussion is irrelevant.

i know what this thread is supposed to be about. i started it
but
if you want to linger on your very specific point
it is true a couple of posters misspoke, technically
--Booker's last regular season with CP3 was probably his best, until the playoff catastrophe

1tinsoldier wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 6:12 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 10, 2025 5:17 pm

You’re missing the point. The question is whether Booker went downhill after the finals…bringing anyone else into the discussion is irrelevant.

i know what this thread is supposed to be about. i started it
but
if you want to linger on your very specific point
it is true a couple of posters misspoke, technically
--Booker's last regular season with CP3 was probably his best, until the playoff catastrophe

Well it was a direct response to someone saying Booker went downhill after the finals.

let the records show that you are correct, sir

I have an idea I think we all can agree on…let’s say Houston wins the lottery with our pick and says they’ll trade it back to us…but not for Durant…they want Booker. Booker for Cooper Flagg and Jalen Green.

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:00 pm

I have an idea I think we all can agree on…let’s say Houston wins the lottery with our pick and says they’ll trade it back to us…but not for Durant…they want Booker. Booker for Cooper Flagg and Jalen Green.

I'm good with just Flagg.

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:00 pm

I have an idea I think we all can agree on…let’s say Houston wins the lottery with our pick and says they’ll trade it back to us…but not for Durant…they want Booker. Booker for Cooper Flagg and Jalen Green.

This would be the darkest timeline. Having to trade Booker to get our own pick back that we foolishly traded away? Barf.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:53 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:00 pm

I have an idea I think we all can agree on…let’s say Houston wins the lottery with our pick and says they’ll trade it back to us…but not for Durant…they want Booker. Booker for Cooper Flagg and Jalen Green.

This would be the darkest timeline. Having to trade Booker to get our own pick back that we foolishly traded away? Barf.

Huh? Your darkest timeline is ending up with Cooper Flagg on a rookie deal?

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:56 pm

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:53 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 11, 2025 4:00 pm

I have an idea I think we all can agree on…let’s say Houston wins the lottery with our pick and says they’ll trade it back to us…but not for Durant…they want Booker. Booker for Cooper Flagg and Jalen Green.

This would be the darkest timeline. Having to trade Booker to get our own pick back that we foolishly traded away? Barf.

Huh? Your darkest timeline is ending up with Cooper Flagg on a rookie deal?

Guys gonna be a generational talent…. Mori is just wanting him for the dubs.