Phx-Suns.Net

Charlie Smithy! wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:54 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:45 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:28 pm

Charlie Smithy! wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:17 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:27 pm

Take it easy on him guys this is all new for him

This question needs to be asked of the karbasi; truly, what would be the result if we merged Kelly oubre and DeAndre ayton into a singular being?

Lol. I don’t hate DA like I do KO. I’m just really disappointed he hasn’t improved his approach to the game at all and talks such a big game every time he opens his mouth.

How does he say some Bs about this being the hardest he’s ever worked out this offseason, then gets ripped for being out of shape by his coach?

I'm starting to think he just says what people tell him. For example, coach probably told him that if he just plays great basketball and doesn't worry about his contract, he will get a great new contract naturally. So, he repeats that back to the media. However, he hasn't taken it to heart. It's just a good sound bite.

Beating the dead horse (reviving and then beating) but getting the #1 pick in the draft with Doncic...I've lived with a lot of things as a Suns/sports fan, but damn.

All-NBA in his second year while Ayton is still trying to learn how to play basketball? We may never live this one down. F'n McD.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:56 pm

Charlie Smithy! wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:54 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:45 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:28 pm

Charlie Smithy! wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:17 pm

This question needs to be asked of the karbasi; truly, what would be the result if we merged Kelly oubre and DeAndre ayton into a singular being?

Lol. I don’t hate DA like I do KO. I’m just really disappointed he hasn’t improved his approach to the game at all and talks such a big game every time he opens his mouth.

How does he say some Bs about this being the hardest he’s ever worked out this offseason, then gets ripped for being out of shape by his coach?

I'm starting to think he just says what people tell him. For example, coach probably told him that if he just plays great basketball and doesn't worry about his contract, he will get a great new contract naturally. So, he repeats that back to the media. However, he hasn't taken it to heart. It's just a good sound bite.

Beating the dead horse (reviving and then beating) but getting the #1 pick in the draft with Doncic...I've lived with a lot of things as a Suns/sports fan, but damn.

All-NBA in his second year while Ayton is still trying to learn how to play basketball? We may never live this one down. F'n McD.

On top of that, he should have been willing to quickly move off the mistake of Josh Jackson and get something for him, while he still had a good amount of value.

In2ition wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:00 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:56 pm

Charlie Smithy! wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:54 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:45 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:28 pm

Lol. I don’t hate DA like I do KO. I’m just really disappointed he hasn’t improved his approach to the game at all and talks such a big game every time he opens his mouth.

How does he say some Bs about this being the hardest he’s ever worked out this offseason, then gets ripped for being out of shape by his coach?

I'm starting to think he just says what people tell him. For example, coach probably told him that if he just plays great basketball and doesn't worry about his contract, he will get a great new contract naturally. So, he repeats that back to the media. However, he hasn't taken it to heart. It's just a good sound bite.

Beating the dead horse (reviving and then beating) but getting the #1 pick in the draft with Doncic...I've lived with a lot of things as a Suns/sports fan, but damn.

All-NBA in his second year while Ayton is still trying to learn how to play basketball? We may never live this one down. F'n McD.

On top of that, he should have been willing to quickly move off the mistake of Josh Jackson and get something for him, while he still had a good amount of value.

IIRC, it was the off-court stuff that tanked his value the most. That sort of thing is hard to predict if or when it'll come up, but I'm sure there were warning signs that were ignored.

Similar to Ayton not progressing on the court. I don't want the Suns to be looking at Ayton's $30M annual salary and wondering why he's the same player as he was 2-3 seasons prior.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:06 pm

In2ition wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:00 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:56 pm

Charlie Smithy! wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:54 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:45 pm

I'm starting to think he just says what people tell him. For example, coach probably told him that if he just plays great basketball and doesn't worry about his contract, he will get a great new contract naturally. So, he repeats that back to the media. However, he hasn't taken it to heart. It's just a good sound bite.

Beating the dead horse (reviving and then beating) but getting the #1 pick in the draft with Doncic...I've lived with a lot of things as a Suns/sports fan, but damn.

All-NBA in his second year while Ayton is still trying to learn how to play basketball? We may never live this one down. F'n McD.

On top of that, he should have been willing to quickly move off the mistake of Josh Jackson and get something for him, while he still had a good amount of value.

IIRC, it was the off-court stuff that tanked his value the most. That sort of thing is hard to predict if or when it'll come up, but I'm sure there were warning signs that were ignored.

Similar to Ayton not progressing on the court. I don't want the Suns to be looking at Ayton's $30M annual salary and wondering why he's the same player as he was 2-3 seasons prior.

Bledsoe may be a better example of holding onto someone too long. That was at the expense of Fox.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:21 am

This team is going to be a work in progress and I think it’s going to take some time into the season before things start gelling. I’m not as confident going into game 1 now. We’ll just have to see how long it’s going to take for things to come together.

Agreed.

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:51 am

We’ve played 2 preseason games against a good team, who was relatively healthy and has really no new players. Of course Utah is going to be hitting their stride earlier than us.

Actually, Utah looked really rusty, outside of Jordan Clarkson. I thought Donovan looked off. Gobert had a great second game, but that was more about who he was playing against.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:58 am

Ayton's not a PnR big. The sooner we understand that and work around it, the better off we'll all be.

Kind of the problem with putting your eggs in the Coach Paul basket.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:14 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:00 am

ShelC wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:58 am

Ayton's not a PnR big. The sooner we understand that and work around it, the better off we'll all be.

If that’s true, he either needs to learn or we need to trade him.

It's just a feel and timing thing. He doesn't stick guys on screens, doesn't work smaller players down into the post, doesn't have the timing down the lane to catch and gather for the finish. He always seems off balance catching the ball on the move. He may just be more of a pick and pop guy. Shaq wasn't a great PnR big either when he was first got here. Amar'e was great at it with his footwork and getting momentum down the lane for the dunk off the pass. I just don't think Ayton has the feel or body control for it.

I think we can include him in a couple of pick & pops and pick & rolls per game, but primarily we need to feed him in the post.

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:27 am

ShelC wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:20 am

I agree. The only other option is to let him be a back to the basket big. Run specific post ups for him to get him his touches and play inside out. We have the shooters in the starting lineup to make defenses pay or he can work against backup bigs with the 2nd unit.

He isn't a good enough passer or decision maker to do that. Because he isn't dominant enough like a shaq where he commanded double and triple teams so he can literally throw the ball out ANYWHERE for an open shooter.

I think he has pretty decent passing skills for a big man that can be further developed.

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:10 am

Honestly, outside of Paul and Payne, Ty-Shon has looked like the best pg. Of course he’s only been playing at the end against other end of bench guys.

I don't think he is a 1 at all. Strictly a 2.

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:32 pm

True about Saric. That is why it is so critical he returns to his bubble-self, and not his rest-of-career-self.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:06 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:10 am

Honestly, outside of Paul and Payne, Ty-Shon has looked like the best pg. Of course he’s only been playing at the end against other end of bench guys.

I don't think he is a 1 at all. Strictly a 2.

Didn’t mean to say he was a 1, just that he’s shown more of those skills than Galloway/Moore/Carter

In2ition wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:36 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:28 pm

Charlie Smithy! wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:17 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:27 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:08 pm

Ayton had a front row view. He didn't even flinch or even entertain the idea of getting in front of that.

Take it easy on him guys this is all new for him

This question needs to be asked of the karbasi; truly, what would be the result if we merged Kelly oubre and DeAndre ayton into a singular being?

Lol. I don’t hate DA like I do KO. I’m just really disappointed he hasn’t improved his approach to the game at all and talks such a big game every time he opens his mouth.

How does he say some Bs about this being the hardest he’s ever worked out this offseason, then gets ripped for being out of shape by his coach?

I think his level of "hardest ever" is a little bit different than someone like KG or any of the superstars. He just doesn't know.

Also, do you think that he shoots middies when he plays himself in 2K? I can't recall a player like him that just goes out of his way to avoid contact as much as he does.

Infuriating

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:01 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:27 am

ShelC wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:20 am

I agree. The only other option is to let him be a back to the basket big. Run specific post ups for him to get him his touches and play inside out. We have the shooters in the starting lineup to make defenses pay or he can work against backup bigs with the 2nd unit.

He isn't a good enough passer or decision maker to do that. Because he isn't dominant enough like a shaq where he commanded double and triple teams so he can literally throw the ball out ANYWHERE for an open shooter.

I think he has pretty decent passing skills for a big man that can be further developed.

Do you think his decision making/speed of decision making can improve enough to run your offense through him in the post? Or as a secondary option? Or him as a primary option against 2nd units?

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:07 pm

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:01 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:27 am

ShelC wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:20 am

I agree. The only other option is to let him be a back to the basket big. Run specific post ups for him to get him his touches and play inside out. We have the shooters in the starting lineup to make defenses pay or he can work against backup bigs with the 2nd unit.

He isn't a good enough passer or decision maker to do that. Because he isn't dominant enough like a shaq where he commanded double and triple teams so he can literally throw the ball out ANYWHERE for an open shooter.

I think he has pretty decent passing skills for a big man that can be further developed.

Do you think his decision making/speed of decision making can improve enough to run your offense through him in the post? Or as a secondary option? Or him as a primary option against 2nd units?

I think he is skilled enough to get the ball in the post and score, or, if he gets double-teamed, to find the open man.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:09 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:07 pm

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:01 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:27 am

ShelC wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:20 am

I agree. The only other option is to let him be a back to the basket big. Run specific post ups for him to get him his touches and play inside out. We have the shooters in the starting lineup to make defenses pay or he can work against backup bigs with the 2nd unit.

He isn't a good enough passer or decision maker to do that. Because he isn't dominant enough like a shaq where he commanded double and triple teams so he can literally throw the ball out ANYWHERE for an open shooter.

I think he has pretty decent passing skills for a big man that can be further developed.

Do you think his decision making/speed of decision making can improve enough to run your offense through him in the post? Or as a secondary option? Or him as a primary option against 2nd units?

I think he is skilled enough to get the ball in the post and score, or, if he gets double-teamed, to find the open man.

I hope you are right. And I hope his leap in defense last year takes another leap this year.

I know this is the fan in me speaking and not the rational human being, but Ayton cost this team the playoffs last year with his stupidity. He should feel some level of responsibility to actually bust his ass in the gym and on the floor to atone for that and help make sure we take a leap.

These two games also left me a touch concerned about our big man depth. It's not just if Ayton is ineffective. What if he gets in foul trouble? I think Saric is a good backup C against other backups, but I don't necessarily think he'll work against some of the bruisers at the C position. There's no Baynes to cover for us any more.

Taj Gibson maybe? He's a little small to match up against the Jokic's of the league, but he'll battle at least.

What infuriates me is that Ayton doesn't seem to like basketball that much after all.
He got all the tools, but just does not get what he have to do and seems like he does not want to be all he can be.

I want to give Ayton more time. It's telling that everybody is busting his ass already in the preseason. They don't seem bashful about making comments that deeply question his motivation and drive, in public, to the media. Maybe they're just trying to motivate him with some public shaming. Not sure whether Ayton is wired that way. My guess is that Ayton isn't going to "get it" for several more years. He'll need to mature as a person before he can be an elite NBA player, if ever. He doesn't seem to get that he isn't where he needs to be, and that he needs to put in dramatically more work, to be the kind of player we hope for. The quotes he gives to the media sound like a young man who hasn't quite figured things out yet and isn't good at correctly assessing himself.