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Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 3:35 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
Lee Tran is the only person talking about that trade.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 3:48 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
Ayton's positives in the past 2 weeks:
- He's in great physical shape.
- He anchored the team defense and controlled the defensive glass for the majority of his time on the court.
Ayton's negatives in the past 2 weeks:
- Minimal ball skill development since the Denver series.
- Still too easy to force into favorable decisions for the defense. For example, teams started crowding him on the catch to limit his jump shot and using a double team when he received a pass within 7-feet of the rim. I can't remember one time he dribble attacked in those situations after the Cuba game.
In summary, not much has changed. He just put in a full effort for 4 straight games.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:24 pm
by Split T
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 3:35 pm
Lee Tran is the only person talking about that trade.
Well it’s what brought up Looney vs Ayton
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:39 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
Saucy brought it up before that link was posted.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:42 pm
by Split T
Well my mistake then…I’ll see myself out. An Ayton vs Looney discussion is dumb
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:36 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
The trade part is dumb to debate since it has no substance besides something Lee Tran thought up for content. That was my only point.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:06 pm
by specialsauce
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:42 pm
Well my mistake then…I’ll see myself out. An Ayton vs Looney discussion is dumb
Really genius, what discussion at this time of the off-season isn’t dumb?
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:24 pm
by virtual9mm
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 3:48 pm
Ayton's positives in the past 2 weeks:
- He's in great physical shape.
- He anchored the team defense and controlled the defensive glass for the majority of his time on the court.
Ayton's negatives in the past 2 weeks:
- Minimal ball skill development since the Denver series.
- Still too easy to force into favorable decisions for the defense. For example, teams started crowding him on the catch to limit his jump shot and using a double team when he received a pass within 7-feet of the rim. I can't remember one time he dribble attacked in those situations after the Cuba game.
In summary, not much has changed. He just put in a full effort for 4 straight games.
That first game was very different. He definitely regressed. Yet, the impact he still had via effort was undeniable.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:28 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
The first game was different because the opposing roster was filled with guys who'd probably defect from their country if given the chance.
Evaluating him playing in the Drew League would've been better than that game against Cuba.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:21 am
by virtual9mm
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:28 pm
The first game was different because the opposing roster was filled with guys who'd probably defect from their country if given the chance.
Evaluating him playing in the Drew League would've been better than that game against Cuba.
Quite possible but I saw stuff in that first game that he's never tried in games before. Maybe he can't do it against better competition quite yet and maybe he's a year away from doing so. But even if that's the case, it's something.
This Ayton discussion is getting pretty pointless. If you're pro (or ok with) Ayton, you're going to see signs of progress. If you're a Hayter, you're going to see the negatives. The only thing we all agree upon is that he is a plus if he puts in the effort, which we saw for a few games here. I'm not going to overreact to the ups and downs, he'll be inconsistent. The real question is how inconsistent.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:57 am
by Split T
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:36 pm
The trade part is dumb to debate since it has no substance besides something Lee Tran thought up for content. That was my only point.
Sure, but to saucy’s point, most all of what we debate is dumb. And it’s not necessarily specific to that exact trade, but just goes back to the idea of replacing Ayton at the 5 with someone who’s a clear downgrade(but perfectly willing to just play the role we want) while adding talent at other positions. The idea of a trade around that framework is not dumb.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:58 am
by Split T
specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:06 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:42 pm
Well my mistake then…I’ll see myself out. An Ayton vs Looney discussion is dumb
Really genius, what discussion at this time of the off-season isn’t dumb?
Fair…you guys can discuss it, I’m just not that interested in it
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:09 am
by Kryptonic
Curious…. What will aytons PPG average be this season with all the tweaks? Given the teams make up… I’d be good with 18ppg.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:51 am
by Mori Chu
Kryptonic wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:09 am
Curious…. What will aytons PPG average be this season with all the tweaks? Given the teams make up… I’d be good with 18ppg.
I doubt Ayton will average 18 ppg. There won't be enough shots to go around for him to average that many. But that's okay; we don't need that from him. I am hoping for more like 15-16 ppg, 12 rpg, 1 bpg. Engaged on defense.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:06 am
by Vladimir_Taltos
virtual9mm wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:21 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:28 pm
The first game was different because the opposing roster was filled with guys who'd probably defect from their country if given the chance.
Evaluating him playing in the Drew League would've been better than that game against Cuba.
Quite possible but I saw stuff in that first game that he's never tried in games before. Maybe he can't do it against better competition quite yet and maybe he's a year away from doing so. But even if that's the case, it's something.
This Ayton discussion is getting pretty pointless. If you're pro (or ok with) Ayton, you're going to see signs of progress. If you're a Hayter, you're going to see the negatives. The only thing we all agree upon is that he is a plus if he puts in the effort, which we saw for a few games here. I'm not going to overreact to the ups and downs, he'll be inconsistent. The real question is how inconsistent.
127 pages later...
"...getting...pointless..."?
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:22 am
by In2ition
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:51 am
Kryptonic wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:09 am
Curious…. What will aytons PPG average be this season with all the tweaks? Given the teams make up… I’d be good with 18ppg.
I doubt Ayton will average 18 ppg. There won't be enough shots to go around for him to average that many. But that's okay; we don't need that from him. I am hoping for more like 15-16 ppg, 12 rpg, 1 bpg. Engaged on defense.
If he does average 18 ppg, it will be a pick your poison scenario for the defense, and they will allow him to get the ball in the paint. Might be a good philosophy for the defense, as he doesn't create contact and get to the line much at all.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:24 am
by In2ition
virtual9mm wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:21 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:28 pm
The first game was different because the opposing roster was filled with guys who'd probably defect from their country if given the chance.
Evaluating him playing in the Drew League would've been better than that game against Cuba.
Quite possible but I saw stuff in that first game that he's never tried in games before. Maybe he can't do it against better competition quite yet and maybe he's a year away from doing so. But even if that's the case, it's something.
This Ayton discussion is getting pretty pointless.
If you're pro (or ok with) Ayton, you're going to see signs of progress. If you're a Hayter, you're going to see the negatives. The only thing we all agree upon is that he is a plus if he puts in the effort, which we saw for a few games here. I'm not going to overreact to the ups and downs, he'll be inconsistent. The real question is how inconsistent.
What if you're neither pro or a hayter? If you see the progress and the positives and also acknowledge the concerns.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:37 am
by Superbone
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:51 am
Kryptonic wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:09 am
Curious…. What will aytons PPG average be this season with all the tweaks? Given the teams make up… I’d be good with 18ppg.
I doubt Ayton will average 18 ppg. There won't be enough shots to go around for him to average that many. But that's okay; we don't need that from him. I am hoping for more like 15-16 ppg, 12 rpg, 1 bpg. Engaged on defense.
Yeah, not too worried about his offense. The defensive end is where he can make the biggest difference for us if he buys in to that.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:38 am
by Superbone
In2ition wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:24 am
virtual9mm wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:21 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:28 pm
The first game was different because the opposing roster was filled with guys who'd probably defect from their country if given the chance.
Evaluating him playing in the Drew League would've been better than that game against Cuba.
Quite possible but I saw stuff in that first game that he's never tried in games before. Maybe he can't do it against better competition quite yet and maybe he's a year away from doing so. But even if that's the case, it's something.
This Ayton discussion is getting pretty pointless.
If you're pro (or ok with) Ayton, you're going to see signs of progress. If you're a Hayter, you're going to see the negatives. The only thing we all agree upon is that he is a plus if he puts in the effort, which we saw for a few games here. I'm not going to overreact to the ups and downs, he'll be inconsistent. The real question is how inconsistent.
What if you're neither pro or a hayter? If you see the progress and the positives and also acknowledge the concerns.
That doesn't seem to be allowed. That's where I am as well. But if you don't show all love, you are labeled as a hater.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 10:14 am
by JeremyG
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 2:15 pm
He was more efficient than a bunch of guys who'll never sniff the NBA. And Facundo Campazzo.
Hmm. I guess Hield and Gordon will never sniff the NBA.
