Page 14 of 257
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:59 pm
by Split T
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:49 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:34 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:32 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:24 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:17 pm
FUN FACT: Devin Booker is up for an extension in 20.5 months from now.
That's why it's so dangerous to not extend Ayton right now. Imagine Booker makes All-NBA this season. Then next summer, Robert Sarver will think, "Well I have to give Booker a supermax extension next summer, so I can't afford Ayton."
Don't say I didn't warn you.
I'm not sure Booker is worth the supermax either. If you give Ayton the full escalators rookie max, you for sure have to give Booker the full supermax.
This might be about Sarver, but it might just be about Ayton. Can he show is more than 20 games of consistent high level play before we give him 200 million?
Sarver is not going to lose all of his players, so he will definitely give Booker the supermax if he's eligible for it. And that may scare him enough next summer to where he lets Ayton walk. That's all I'm saying. It's pretty scary.
There’s no way he lets him walk. He may sign and trade him, but he’s not just losing him for nothing.
Yeah it would probably be a S&T, but still we probably wouldn't get much in return (another Boris Diaw like in the JJ trade if we get extremely lucky) and we lose Ayton. I would consider that to be a disaster.
Ya hard to know what we’d get. Honestly the biggest incentive to me for signing him now would be being able to trade him to more teams next summer. I’d be thrilled to trade him in a package for KAT next summer, but that’s pretty unlikely if we have to get Ayton to agree to go there.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:02 pm
by Aztec Sunsfan
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:29 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:30 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:29 pm
What's the point of staying with a team that's pissed you off if they aren't even giving you any more money than other teams are offering you?
It's not my intention to go at you for this because we hear it all the time from people in the media and sometimes people adjacent to players (agents, family, ect.)
But it's complete horseshit and makes me a little angry to think that someone who signs a contract that will pay them $150 million or more is somehow pissed off because of it.
Like Ayton said himself, it's about respect, and being respected and valued as much as your peers are by their teams. It's not necessarily about the money.
Well, since the Kid sees the money as a measure of re$$$pect, is actually entirely about the money: Forget about actually being a dominant force in the court, Dominayton is measured with dollars.
Next year, we still have RFA rights and the advantage of the bigger contract so, that re$$$pect still be there for him after earned over an entire year.
S&T his greedy ass to Minnesota for KAT if all he cares about, is money to feel respected.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:07 pm
by Split T
Is he wearing a Payton jersey? Pay Ayton? Lol
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:08 pm
by Indy
I am not sure what DA's RFA max would be to start, but I thought it was 29.75M in year one.
If Spotrac is right, there are only 6 teams with 30M or more in "practical" cap space next year. Spurs, Pistons, Magic, Cavs, OKC, and the Pels.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:12 pm
by JeremyG
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:57 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:51 pm
ShelC wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:38 am
The Hawks were offering John Collins 90mil over 4 last offseason, he played out the year and got 5 years 125 (5th yr PO) after the playoff run. So it's not the end of the world if DA doesn't sign and we're not the first team to go thru this. It can all get worked out.
Good luck with that, with a nasty owner like Robert Sarver. And you all are forgetting the other examples people in the media have pointed out, such as Gordon Hayward getting matched but wanting to leave just a few years later.
Hayward played out the 4 years of his contract and left in free agency. There were no problems while he was there in Utah.
He left after 3 years (I think the team they matched put a PO in there). And that's my point. He didn't want to stay there long term, after they refused to extend him before he was a RFA.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:18 pm
by Split T
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:12 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:57 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:51 pm
ShelC wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:38 am
The Hawks were offering John Collins 90mil over 4 last offseason, he played out the year and got 5 years 125 (5th yr PO) after the playoff run. So it's not the end of the world if DA doesn't sign and we're not the first team to go thru this. It can all get worked out.
Good luck with that, with a nasty owner like Robert Sarver. And you all are forgetting the other examples people in the media have pointed out, such as Gordon Hayward getting matched but wanting to leave just a few years later.
Hayward played out the 4 years of his contract and left in free agency. There were no problems while he was there in Utah.
He left after 3 years (I think the team they matched put a PO in there). And that's my point. He didn't want to stay there long term, after they refused to extend him before he was a RFA.
I think he just saw a better opportunity to go to Boston and reunite with his old coach. To be honest I feel we could be heading more towards a Bledsoe situation. RFA where no one really wants to make an offer because they know we’ll match. So limited suitors. Might drag out for awhile, which isn’t ideal, but ultimately he stays. Bledsoe was fine here until our team was awful. S&T would definitely be an option too.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:20 pm
by Split T
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:08 pm
I am not sure what DA's RFA max would be to start, but I thought it was 29.75M in year one.
If Spotrac is right, there are only 6 teams with 30M or more in "practical" cap space next year. Spurs, Pistons, Magic, Cavs, OKC, and the Pels.
Yes 29.75 is correct. None of those teams, except maybe OKC if they decide to start trying, seem like they’d be after him. S&T market would have to be where he gets interest.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:20 pm
by Aztec Sunsfan
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:12 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:57 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:51 pm
ShelC wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:38 am
The Hawks were offering John Collins 90mil over 4 last offseason, he played out the year and got 5 years 125 (5th yr PO) after the playoff run. So it's not the end of the world if DA doesn't sign and we're not the first team to go thru this. It can all get worked out.
Good luck with that, with a nasty owner like Robert Sarver. And you all are forgetting the other examples people in the media have pointed out, such as Gordon Hayward getting matched but wanting to leave just a few years later.
Hayward played out the 4 years of his contract and left in free agency. There were no problems while he was there in Utah.
He left after 3 years (I think the team they matched put a PO in there). And that's my point. He didn't want to stay there long term, after they refused to extend him before he was a RFA.
And the solution to this, is to overpay everyone, to keep them happy? GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!!!
Fear to separation is the worst advisor. You have to be willing to stand up from the table, and reset negotiations.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:27 pm
by Indy
Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:20 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:12 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:57 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:51 pm
ShelC wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:38 am
The Hawks were offering John Collins 90mil over 4 last offseason, he played out the year and got 5 years 125 (5th yr PO) after the playoff run. So it's not the end of the world if DA doesn't sign and we're not the first team to go thru this. It can all get worked out.
Good luck with that, with a nasty owner like Robert Sarver. And you all are forgetting the other examples people in the media have pointed out, such as Gordon Hayward getting matched but wanting to leave just a few years later.
Hayward played out the 4 years of his contract and left in free agency. There were no problems while he was there in Utah.
He left after 3 years (I think the team they matched put a PO in there). And that's my point. He didn't want to stay there long term, after they refused to extend him before he was a RFA.
And the solution to this, is to overpay everyone, to keep them happy? GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!!!
Fear to separation is the worst advisor. You have to be willing to stand up from the table, and reset negotiations.
Look, I am not one to advocate for Sarver in any way, much less ways to save him money. But I do care about this team and want them to be competitive and try and win a championship. And I don't think locking into a potential 207M contract to Ayton sets us up for that, unless he were a potential MVP or likely DPOY.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:28 pm
by Mori Chu
Oof. This is really bad news. I wish they had been able to work something out. I wonder what Saver/Jones were willing to offer him? I wonder how far apart they were? The standard max seems like a no-brainer to me, not because Ayton is a perfect player, but because the max is relatively low for a key top-3 guy on a title team and I think Ayton proved he's worth that.
I think this will be the beginning of the end of the DeAndre Ayton era here in Phoenix. He'll play out this year here, but then he'll say he wants out and does not want us to match whatever RFA offer he goes out and gets. And he'll get the RFA max, which Saver won't be willing to match because why pay that much for somebody who doesn't even want to play for your team?
The well is poisoned and the relationship is broken. I thought we'd found our center of the future, but I guess the search continues. Thanks, Robert Sarver. I should go back and edit my season predictions because NO WAY do we get #1 in the West with this BS hanging over us all season.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:33 pm
by Indy
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:45 pm
by Shabazz
I’m gonna withhold judgement on all this until I hear what Flex has to say.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:06 pm
by Indy
He's played ball. He gets it.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:11 pm
by JeremyG
Those high school (junior high?) contract negotiations must be tough.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:12 pm
by JeremyG
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:18 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:12 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:57 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:51 pm
ShelC wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:38 am
The Hawks were offering John Collins 90mil over 4 last offseason, he played out the year and got 5 years 125 (5th yr PO) after the playoff run. So it's not the end of the world if DA doesn't sign and we're not the first team to go thru this. It can all get worked out.
Good luck with that, with a nasty owner like Robert Sarver. And you all are forgetting the other examples people in the media have pointed out, such as Gordon Hayward getting matched but wanting to leave just a few years later.
Hayward played out the 4 years of his contract and left in free agency. There were no problems while he was there in Utah.
He left after 3 years (I think the team they matched put a PO in there). And that's my point. He didn't want to stay there long term, after they refused to extend him before he was a RFA.
I think he just saw a better opportunity to go to Boston and reunite with his old coach. To be honest I feel we could be heading more towards a Bledsoe situation. RFA where no one really wants to make an offer because they know we’ll match. So limited suitors. Might drag out for awhile, which isn’t ideal, but ultimately he stays. Bledsoe was fine here until our team was awful. S&T would definitely be an option too.
I think he would just take the QO at that point, unlike Bledsoe.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:14 pm
by JeremyG
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:28 pm
Oof. This is really bad news. I wish they had been able to work something out. I wonder what Saver/Jones were willing to offer him? I wonder how far apart they were? The standard max seems like a no-brainer to me, not because Ayton is a perfect player, but because the max is relatively low for a key top-3 guy on a title team and I think Ayton proved he's worth that.
I think this will be the beginning of the end of the DeAndre Ayton era here in Phoenix. He'll play out this year here, but then he'll say he wants out and does not want us to match whatever RFA offer he goes out and gets. And he'll get the RFA max, which Saver won't be willing to match because why pay that much for somebody who doesn't even want to play for your team?
The well is poisoned and the relationship is broken. I thought we'd found our center of the future, but I guess the search continues. Thanks, Robert Sarver. I should go back and edit my season predictions because NO WAY do we get #1 in the West with this BS hanging over us all season.
I fear this is the way it will play out. And it's happened before (JJ).
The max for Ayton would have looked great once the new TV deal kicks in. Sarver just never learns his lessons.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:16 pm
by JeremyG
Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:20 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:12 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:57 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:51 pm
ShelC wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:38 am
The Hawks were offering John Collins 90mil over 4 last offseason, he played out the year and got 5 years 125 (5th yr PO) after the playoff run. So it's not the end of the world if DA doesn't sign and we're not the first team to go thru this. It can all get worked out.
Good luck with that, with a nasty owner like Robert Sarver. And you all are forgetting the other examples people in the media have pointed out, such as Gordon Hayward getting matched but wanting to leave just a few years later.
Hayward played out the 4 years of his contract and left in free agency. There were no problems while he was there in Utah.
He left after 3 years (I think the team they matched put a PO in there). And that's my point. He didn't want to stay there long term, after they refused to extend him before he was a RFA.
And the solution to this, is to overpay everyone, to keep them happy? GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!!!
Fear to separation is the worst advisor. You have to be willing to stand up from the table, and reset negotiations.
I don't agree that it's an overpay. But yes, even if it is, it's worth it to keep everyone happy to try to win a title this year and the next few years.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:18 pm
by Indy
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:16 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:20 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:12 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:57 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:51 pm
Good luck with that, with a nasty owner like Robert Sarver. And you all are forgetting the other examples people in the media have pointed out, such as Gordon Hayward getting matched but wanting to leave just a few years later.
Hayward played out the 4 years of his contract and left in free agency. There were no problems while he was there in Utah.
He left after 3 years (I think the team they matched put a PO in there). And that's my point. He didn't want to stay there long term, after they refused to extend him before he was a RFA.
And the solution to this, is to overpay everyone, to keep them happy? GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!!!
Fear to separation is the worst advisor. You have to be willing to stand up from the table, and reset negotiations.
I don't agree that it's an overpay. But yes, even if it is, it's worth it to keep everyone happy to try to win a title this year
and the next few years.
it wouldn't be a few years. You said yourself that Book is up for an extension in under 2 years.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:19 pm
by JeremyG
Gambo said he got a message from Ayton's agent that said he was "never offered a max."
Again, the implication is they won't even offer him the $172.5M.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:20 pm
by JeremyG
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:18 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:16 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:20 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:12 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:57 pm
Hayward played out the 4 years of his contract and left in free agency. There were no problems while he was there in Utah.
He left after 3 years (I think the team they matched put a PO in there). And that's my point. He didn't want to stay there long term, after they refused to extend him before he was a RFA.
And the solution to this, is to overpay everyone, to keep them happy? GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!!!
Fear to separation is the worst advisor. You have to be willing to stand up from the table, and reset negotiations.
I don't agree that it's an overpay. But yes, even if it is, it's worth it to keep everyone happy to try to win a title this year
and the next few years.
it wouldn't be a few years. You said yourself that Book is up for an extension in under 2 years.
Even if it's only 2 years, that's better than 0 years.