Phx-Suns.Net

It may be true that they've been riding the fence between rebuilding and competing, but it seems like they've finally gotten off that fence and committed to rebuilding.

BTW, who voted for Skal in the poll?

Even the Knight trade which seemed very reactionary was for a young guy.

Right, another young PG we were going to plug in at the SG spot and then give a max deal to in the offseason. And that was after an offseason where we gave Bledsoe a max deal, signed Isaiah Thomas, drafted Tyler Ennis, yet did not seem interested in re-signing Dragic (who almost led us to the playoffs when Bledsoe went down).

So while the intent in trading for young talent is correct, the players we keep bringing in seems an indictment on McD's decision making/philosophies.

And I wouldn't call the chase for LMA a small one. I liked that we did it and was OK with the Chandler signing even without LMA. But again, now we're kind of stuck of facing a potential issue if we're not a good team this season and Chandler starts chirping about it.

Not to be nitpicky, but neither bledsoe or knight signed Max deals.

But they were close.

Cap wrote:But they were close.

The MLE has traditionally been a shade under 10% of the cap. That will be roughly $9M as of midnight. Those deals are almost cheap now. And rookie deals? Not even fair right now.

carey wrote:

Cap wrote:But they were close.

The MLE has traditionally been a shade under 10% of the cap. That will be roughly $9M as of midnight. Those deals are almost cheap now. And rookie deals? Not even fair right now.

Hence the past tense. They were close to max, that is the max that applied to them at the time, but not currently close to the new max.

IIRC, we initially offered Bledsoe $12M/yr, he demanded the max of $16/yr, and we settled on $14/yr, or almost 90% of his max. Knight was similar.

Cap wrote:
IIRC, we initially offered Bledsoe $12M/yr, he demanded the max of $16/yr, and we settled on $14/yr, or almost 90% of his max. Knight was similar.

I believe that's right.

EDC wrote:I think the front office has been pretty consistent on the theme of of rebuilding through youth. The one exception being the small chase for LA. We ended up taking on Chandler for that but we had to spend money on something and its a bad idea to not have a few vets around.

Even the Knight trade which seemed very reactionary was for a young guy. I think they have consistently been committed to the rebuild but leaving their options open if they can get what they think is a star player. They just don't come out and say that.

I don't think it's a secret that McDonough is following the Celtics' plan. Acquire young players and assets and then jump on prime free agents when the time is right. It is the very same plan they used to finally acquire Ray Allen and Garnett to add to their young core with an established Paul Pierce and the rest is history.

Superbone wrote:I don't think it's a secret that McDonough is following the Celtics' plan. Acquire young players and assets and then jump on prime free agents when the time is right. It is the very same plan they used to finally acquire Ray Allen and Garnett to add to their young core with an established Paul Pierce and the rest is history.

The problem is the Celtics can't even follow the Celtics plan anymore. There's too much cap space right now so no one is backed into a corner financially. The only disgruntled superstar at the moment is Cousins and honestly can you win with him as your best player? The league is moving away from players like him. I honestly don't know.

carey wrote:

Superbone wrote:I don't think it's a secret that McDonough is following the Celtics' plan. Acquire young players and assets and then jump on prime free agents when the time is right. It is the very same plan they used to finally acquire Ray Allen and Garnett to add to their young core with an established Paul Pierce and the rest is history.

The problem is the Celtics can't even follow the Celtics plan anymore. There's too much cap space right now so no one is backed into a corner financially. The only disgruntled superstar at the moment is Cousins and honestly can you win with him as your best player? The league is moving away from players like him. I honestly don't know.

If this is the case, they should be in a good position in 2 more years. A ton of the owners will be maxing out their salary cap in the next two years, as they spend like a drunken soldier. Also, you know there is going to be some disgruntled players as other mediocre players are making much more than they are. I can see the CBA getting adjusted again to account for different tiers of players.

In2ition wrote:If this is the case, they should be in a good position in 2 more years. A ton of the owners will be maxing out their salary cap in the next two years, as they spend like a drunken soldier. Also, you know there is going to be some disgruntled players as other mediocre players are making much more than they are. I can see the CBA getting adjusted again to account for different tiers of players.

Yes! But we have to be one of the teams that does not in order to take advantage of the situation. The latter is a good point so I caution that we need to retain our flexibility. Lets keep the roster young. Lets sign young-ish vets to short term contracts. You want Mirza? Ok, but no longer than a 2 year deal.

carey wrote:

In2ition wrote:If this is the case, they should be in a good position in 2 more years. A ton of the owners will be maxing out their salary cap in the next two years, as they spend like a drunken soldier. Also, you know there is going to be some disgruntled players as other mediocre players are making much more than they are. I can see the CBA getting adjusted again to account for different tiers of players.

Yes! But we have to be one of the teams that does not in order to take advantage of the situation. The latter is a good point so I caution that we need to retain our flexibility. Lets keep the roster young. Lets sign young-ish vets to short term contracts. You want Mirza? Ok, but no longer than a 2 year deal.

And...in this environment...draft picks become all that much more valuable. The Suns are perfectly situated for this financial environment -- lots and lots of rookie deals and young-ish vets on long-term contracts. Ride out the first few years of the new money bonanza and conserve cap space until the overspending consumes the available cap space.

The simple reality is that there is an artificial glut of cap space because the cap has risen but legacy contracts will not. With everyone having cap space, the supply of money is going to skyrocket and players are going to be overpaid galore. In two years' time, the new contracts will have eaten through the glut of cap space, and salaries will "rationalize" to a substantial extent. At that time, teams that have prudently avoided the feeding frenzy will be taking on bad contracts for assets (again).

virtual9mm wrote:And...in this environment...draft picks become all that much more valuable. The Suns are perfectly situated for this financial environment -- lots and lots of rookie deals and young-ish vets on long-term contracts. Ride out the first few years of the new money bonanza and conserve cap space until the overspending consumes the available cap space.

The simple reality is that there is an artificial glut of cap space because the cap has risen but legacy contracts will not. With everyone having cap space, the supply of money is going to skyrocket and players are going to be overpaid galore. In two years' time, the new contracts will have eaten through the glut of cap space, and salaries will "rationalize" to a substantial extent. At that time, teams that have prudently avoided the feeding frenzy will be taking on bad contracts for assets (again).

I also expect this to happen, but there will be a new CBA next year. How much changes could that bring?

Hermen wrote:

virtual9mm wrote:And...in this environment...draft picks become all that much more valuable. The Suns are perfectly situated for this financial environment -- lots and lots of rookie deals and young-ish vets on long-term contracts. Ride out the first few years of the new money bonanza and conserve cap space until the overspending consumes the available cap space.

The simple reality is that there is an artificial glut of cap space because the cap has risen but legacy contracts will not. With everyone having cap space, the supply of money is going to skyrocket and players are going to be overpaid galore. In two years' time, the new contracts will have eaten through the glut of cap space, and salaries will "rationalize" to a substantial extent. At that time, teams that have prudently avoided the feeding frenzy will be taking on bad contracts for assets (again).

I also expect this to happen, but there will be a new CBA next year. How much changes could that bring?

I expect quite a few changes. I think it's obvious the rookie scale contracts will go up. You can't have guys at the bottom of the first round making $1M when the cap is over $90M dollars. Also I think the value of the "max" deal will go up. I kind of like Brian Scalabrine's idea that would allow each team to have one player unbeholden to the value of a max salary. So if you have a LeBron or a Steph or a Anthony Davis you can pay them $40M. They are worth that much or more to their teams. It would help create parity by spreading out the superstars and possibly decreasing these super teams.

Hermen wrote:I also expect this to happen, but there will be a new CBA next year.

In 2017-18, the Suns will win 30 games. And finish over .500.

I've heard that a lockout is not expected. Way too much money would be lost on both sides

Cap wrote:

Hermen wrote:I also expect this to happen, but there will be a new CBA next year.

In 2017-18, the Suns will win 30 games. And finish over .500.

Exactly what I was thinking. Owners are going to spend themselves into a lockout.

Cap wrote:

Hermen wrote:I also expect this to happen, but there will be a new CBA next year.

In 2017-18, the Suns will win 30 games. And finish over .500.

That's what I'm afraid of.

carey wrote:

Hermen wrote:

virtual9mm wrote:And...in this environment...draft picks become all that much more valuable. The Suns are perfectly situated for this financial environment -- lots and lots of rookie deals and young-ish vets on long-term contracts. Ride out the first few years of the new money bonanza and conserve cap space until the overspending consumes the available cap space.

The simple reality is that there is an artificial glut of cap space because the cap has risen but legacy contracts will not. With everyone having cap space, the supply of money is going to skyrocket and players are going to be overpaid galore. In two years' time, the new contracts will have eaten through the glut of cap space, and salaries will "rationalize" to a substantial extent. At that time, teams that have prudently avoided the feeding frenzy will be taking on bad contracts for assets (again).

I also expect this to happen, but there will be a new CBA next year. How much changes could that bring?

I expect quite a few changes. I think it's obvious the rookie scale contracts will go up. You can't have guys at the bottom of the first round making $1M when the cap is over $90M dollars. Also I think the value of the "max" deal will go up. I kind of like Brian Scalabrine's idea that would allow each team to have one player unbeholden to the value of a max salary. So if you have a LeBron or a Steph or a Anthony Davis you can pay them $40M. They are worth that much or more to their teams. It would help create parity by spreading out the superstars and possibly decreasing these super teams.

This would make sense. But...

O_Gardino wrote:

Cap wrote:

Hermen wrote:I also expect this to happen, but there will be a new CBA next year.

In 2017-18, the Suns will win 30 games. And finish over .500.

Exactly what I was thinking. Owners are going to spend themselves into a lockout.

^ This...

The rookies scale is what it is, because current players care more about themselves, that about the upcoming kid from who knows where. That's why they put the scale in the first place, because some rookies were entering the league with big contracts, therefore limiting the money for veterans. The latest correction was to introduce team options for year 3 and 4 of the contract, and that should tell you all about how both sides see the issue. I think owners and the majority of the current players are happy with the status quo on this particular subject.